[Reef_Haven]

There is another thread discussing the wisdom of purchasing WC frogs.
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/67521-warning-about-wild-collected-tinctorius.html
This has been discussed many times, with some anecdotal citations.

Please post your first hand experiences here. Remember no vendor feedback.

I'll start.
With my limited experience, I went against the general wisdom and purchased 4 WC adult Auratus, among several other purchases this year.
I have examined many fecals from these frogs and have seen no problems. They are healthy, doing great and recently began breeding with their first two clutches for me being fertile.
I asked to receive two pairs if possible. I ended up with 1.3.0
I have only had health problems with 2 out of 30 CB juveniles.

 

[Tony]

I have worked with a number of wild caught frogs from several families and have experienced minimal losses, on par with the losses I have had from CB stock. If you are experienced with the frogs in question, prepared to quickly treat any disease that may show up, and start with quality animals then you will likely do well with them.

 

[Rain_Frog]

I bought four mantella ebenaui seven years ago. I lost one within a few days. Two were still froglets. The three ebenaui are still with me today

12 pulchra were purchased last year. All 12 are doing great.

 

[stemcellular]

Comparatively, among dendrobatids and mantella species, I've had very few losses from WC imports. However, some species are clearly hardier than others. Mantella sp. really seem to be bulletproof once acclimated.

 

[Ed]

In the last 20 plus years I have worked with wc frogs and toads of many taxa. I have had mortality run from 0% to close to 100% depending on the condition of the frogs when I recieved them (and this include the many species I worked with in an instutional situation). One of the things I have found is that I don't consider wc animals really stable until at least six months and sometimes as much as a year later.


Ed

 

[Logqan]

In the past I purchased 6 WC pulchra and lost one within a week. The rest are doing great 3 years later.
I purchased 6 WC laevigata and lost one two years later the rest still kicking also purchased 3 years ago.

Anyway did the math

WC dead vs live 2/12 16.66%

CB dead vs live 3/18 16.66%

crazy stuff
these stats aren't great of course because my numbers aren't large enough to show a good trend.

 

[EricIvins]

I've had losses run from 0-100%.......

With regard to Tinctorious, the only losses I've had were my mistakes and one DOA straight from Surinam.......

Leucomelas can be 50/50, but animals from Guyana will always be 50/50 since they need to be held at a quarantine station for 30 days before Export........That, and the fact that the animal trade is a complete 180 compared to Surinam.......

Surinam can Export Frogs hours out of the wild, Guyana can't........

Auratus can be tricky since they aren't naturally bold Frogs. They have a tendency to hide things and behavoirs associated with the common ailments.......

Pumilio I've found to be fairly hardy - There downfall is size......It's harder to spot problems because of it......


To be honest, my losses from wild caught and CBB animals are very close to the same.........

When I breed Red Eyes, I usually lose 25% in the tadpole/froglet stage before they are ready to sell. I've come to expect that, and other Tree Frogs I've found to be no different........

It comes down to a simple equation - Healthy animals + proper husbandry = success......Change a variable in that equation, and you may not have success.....

It also comes down to people admitting to husbandry mistakes.....I know I've killed my fair share of Frogs and other Reptile/Amphibians through improper husbandry and husbandry mistakes......

Anyone that plans to keep Amphibians should also have all the products they need on hand, and keep up with current husbandry/treatment practices......It's all part of captive husbandry evolution, and no one should take it lightly......

 

[markpulawski]

I too have had near 100% success and 100% failure with different groups, so much depends on how they are held, kept and handled during the export process. Now a days I treat with both worming meds and anti fungal.

 

[Dendro Dave]

Comparatively, among dendrobatids and mantella species, I've had very few losses from WC imports. However, some species are clearly hardier than others. Mantella sp. really seem to be bulletproof once acclimated.

Mantella I think are about the only WC frogs I've had other then a fire-bellied toad. I've had some some Wc newts too. I generally find them to be hardier then wc reptiles I've owned. I think I did loose a viridis or 2 when I first got a group, maybe an expecta also within the first couple weeks. Basically I've found if an animal makes it the first 2 weeks we're good to go usually.

Even though I feel people may be more likely to have success with them then other WC herps, I think it should be avoided whenever possible. If you absolutely need new blood or its the only way to get something(legally) then ok, but still you should get some experience under your belt before doing it IMO, and preferably have a few common meds on hand or be able to get them quickly and know what to do with them.

 

[chuckpowell]

I've worked with probably hundred of wc frogs over the years and if properly shipped - not crowded into a package together or exposed to very high or low temperatures, they are, overall, easy to deal with. If they come in looking good I generally have have few or no losses. I even had a trio of bulls eye O. histronica come in that looked terrible and I figured it was wasted money. They were housed and feed heavily and they all recovered and looked beautiful when i passed them on to a friend (still kicking myself 20 years later). Overall I've found wc animals relatively easy to adjust to captivity if properly cared for.

Best,

Chuck

 

[Rain_Frog]

if you're receiving frogs from a direct import and they were shipped well, there tends to be low mortality.

If the frogs go to a wholesaler and then redistributed to a reptile or pet store, then stress related problems are likely.

 

[Woodsman]

Of the two people I know locally who purchased wc D. tinctorious in 2009, two people lost all the frogs. The other person bought a single pair that are still around (though he didn't get any breeding out of them). I guess it's hit or miss.

Richard.