Why do I have one frog hanging at the top of the tank?

766 Views 25 Replies 12 Participants Last post by Woodswalker, 7 d ago

b2trainer

Discussion Starter · 14 d ago

As the title suggests… one of 2 dart frogs hanging out at the top of the tank. Other frog is in there, but he doesn’t come out very often. Humidity and temp are stable. We did stop misting for a little bit because the substrate was getting too damp. Could it be that it is simply too dry?

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Hopout

· #2 · 14 d ago

I'll wait out for the more experienced members to answer but if I had to guess it looks like it's husbandry related. In the meantime I'll just post these question that will help in finding the root cause:

Answer all these questions as best you can (cut and paste -- please don't quote because that makes it hard to read the responses):

1. What species ? How long have you had the frog(s) and where did you acquire them ? Were they WC (wild collected) or CB (captive bred)?

2. What are your temperatures (day and night - highs and lows) and how do you measure those temperatures? Does the vivarium have any supplemental heating, and if so, what type?

3. What lighting is on the enclosure (brand, type, wattage) and does the lighting add heat to the vivarium?

4. What is the Humidity like (percentage or guesstimate)? What type of water are you using? What is your misting procedure (automated or hand mister, how long and how often)?

5. Describe your tank/enclosure and its lid or top, and give details about the ventilation (how many vents, where are they positioned, how large are they).

6. What kind of food are you providing, how much and are you dusting it? What superfine powdered supplements (brand and exact product name) are you using and are they fresh (i.e. how long has the container been open, and how is it stored)?

7. Any other animals in the enclosure currently or recently? Tankmates / other frogs ?

8. Any type of behavior you would consider 'odd' ?

9. Have you handled or touched the frogs recently ? Any cleansers, paint, perfumes, bug sprays etc near the tank ?

10. Take pictures of EVERYTHING -- the frogs, the enclosure, the vents. Take numerous pics of everything - that will be of great help

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fishingguy12345

· #3 · 14 d ago

Pictures of the rest of the tank will help.

Looks like that tank is incredibly wet and the frog is trying to find a place that's not soaking wet.

Reactions: 1

bulbophyllum

· #4 · 14 d ago

That tank looks very wet.

You give no details. How can anyone who is no in the room talking to you and looking at the tank diagnose an issue over the internet without details? We don't know what species of frog, how long you have had them, if you used to see the other frog a lot and then the behavior changed, what the conditions are in the tank you are keeping them...

Reactions: 1

b2trainer

Discussion Starter · #5 · 14 d ago

1. What species ? How long have you had the frog(s) and where did you acquire them ? Were they WC (wild collected) or CB (captive bred)?

Will confirm with my wife but I believe it is they are Dendrobates tinctorius. Captive bred. Had them for almost 8months. Acquired them from a local pet store.

2. What are your temperatures (day and night - highs and lows) and how do you measure those temperatures? Does the vivarium have any supplemental heating, and if so, what type?

Temperature is steady at 75 at all times. Maybe gets down to 70 and up to 77 periodically. Measure and keep the temp with a thermostat in the middle with heat mats on either side. Secondary thermometer confirms readings.

3. What lighting is on the enclosure (brand, type, wattage) and does the lighting add heat to the vivarium?

lighting does not add heat that I am aware of. It’s zoomed. Bull is a simple led.

4. What is the Humidity like (percentage or guesstimate)? What type of water are you using? What is your misting procedure (automated or hand mister, how long and how often)?

Humidtity is between 70 and 100 always according to my wall mounted hygrometer. We were misting with a hand mister consistently for 10sec 2x/day but our substrate was getting soaked so we dialed it back a bit.Just started picking it back up. Water is treated with reptile drops.

5. Describe your tank/enclosure and its lid or top, and give details about the ventilation (how many vents, where are they positioned, how large are they).

Tank is about 15gal. Top is plexiglass. The edges of the door aren’t air tight so that would be my venting. Would be interested in knowing is people think this is sufficient.

6. What kind of food are you providing, how much and are you dusting it? What superfine powdered supplements (brand and exact product name) are you using and are they fresh (i.e. how long has the container been open, and how is it stored)?

Provide calcium dusted fruit flies every other day (Tuesday, Thursday, Sunday) as well as springtails and isopods. That is the only supplements and food.

7. Any other animals in the enclosure currently or recently? Tankmates / other frogs ?

No. Just the two frogs of the same species

8. Any type of behavior you would consider 'odd' ?

Other than this? No. Even this isn’t that odd. Both frogs have never seemed to stick to one hiding spot.

9. Have you handled or touched the frogs recently ? Any cleansers, paint, perfumes, bug sprays etc near the tank ?

No to all.

10. Take pictures of EVERYTHING -- the frogs, the enclosure, the vents. Take numerous pics of everything - that will be of great help

Pictures attached are after a recent misting and squeegee of the front glass. The one thing that I’ve noticed is that although the outside glass gets a lot of condensation, the plants and such get dry quickly. Appreciate all of the help and apologize for not offering more information initially.

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Reactions: 1

fishingguy12345

· #6 · 14 d ago

b2trainer said:
Dendrobates tinctorius. Captive bred

The frog in the picture is (my best guess at least) Ranitomeya sirensis "Highland", it is certainly not Dendrobates tinctorius.

Your tank has no real ventilation, and that's not a good husbandry approach.

The repti calcium product you are using is not suitable for dart frogs (and may not really be suitable for any amphibian or reptile...) Repashy Calcium Plus is the most recommended supplement on this forum.

Reactions: 5

b2trainer

Discussion Starter · #7 · 14 d ago

fishingguy12345 said:
The frog in the picture is (my best guess at least) Ranitomeya sirensis "Highland", it is certainly not Dendrobates tinctorius.

Your tank has no real ventilation, and that's not a good husbandry approach.

The repti calcium product you are using is not suitable for dart frogs (and may not really be suitable for any amphibian or reptile...) Repashy Calcium Plus is the most recommended supplement on this forum.

Thank you for your reply!

How would you recommend I add ventilation?

When I purchased the calcium product it noted it was for dart frogs as well. However, I will do another look and stop using it right away if my findings are the same.

thanks again!

Reactions: 1

b2trainer

Discussion Starter · #8 · 14 d ago

b2trainer said:
1. What species ? How long have you had the frog(s) and where did you acquire them ? Were they WC (wild collected) or CB (captive bred)?

Will confirm with my wife but I believe it is they are Dendrobates tinctorius. Captive bred. Had them for almost 8months. Acquired them from a local pet store.

2. What are your temperatures (day and night - highs and lows) and how do you measure those temperatures? Does the vivarium have any supplemental heating, and if so, what type?

Temperature is steady at 75 at all times. Maybe gets down to 70 and up to 77 periodically. Measure and keep the temp with a thermostat in the middle with heat mats on either side. Secondary thermometer confirms readings.

3. What lighting is on the enclosure (brand, type, wattage) and does the lighting add heat to the vivarium?

lighting does not add heat that I am aware of. It’s zoomed. Bull is a simple led.

4. What is the Humidity like (percentage or guesstimate)? What type of water are you using? What is your misting procedure (automated or hand mister, how long and how often)?

Humidtity is between 70 and 100 always according to my wall mounted hygrometer. We were misting with a hand mister consistently for 10sec 2x/day but our substrate was getting soaked so we dialed it back a bit.Just started picking it back up. Water is treated with reptile drops.

5. Describe your tank/enclosure and its lid or top, and give details about the ventilation (how many vents, where are they positioned, how large are they).

Tank is about 15gal. Top is plexiglass. The edges of the door aren’t air tight so that would be my venting. Would be interested in knowing is people think this is sufficient.

6. What kind of food are you providing, how much and are you dusting it? What superfine powdered supplements (brand and exact product name) are you using and are they fresh (i.e. how long has the container been open, and how is it stored)?

Provide calcium dusted fruit flies every other day (Tuesday, Thursday, Sunday) as well as springtails and isopods. That is the only supplements and food.

7. Any other animals in the enclosure currently or recently? Tankmates / other frogs ?

No. Just the two frogs of the same species

8. Any type of behavior you would consider 'odd' ?

Other than this? No. Even this isn’t that odd. Both frogs have never seemed to stick to one hiding spot.

9. Have you handled or touched the frogs recently ? Any cleansers, paint, perfumes, bug sprays etc near the tank ?

No to all.

10. Take pictures of EVERYTHING -- the frogs, the enclosure, the vents. Take numerous pics of everything - that will be of great help

Pictures attached are after a recent misting and squeegee of the front glass. The one thing that I’ve noticed is that although the outside glass gets a lot of condensation, the plants and such get dry quickly. Appreciate all of the help and apologize for not offering more information initially.

Not sure why it only attached one picture.

others below…

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fishingguy12345

· #9 · 14 d ago

b2trainer said:
How would you recommend I add ventilation?

It's pretty much impossible to add ventilation now without removing the frogs.

I added ventilation to a similar set up by drilling holes in the top of the glass and then attaching screen over the holes (so frogs don't escape). (The frogs need to be removed before doing this

)

Is the "climbing frog" going to the side farthest away from the heat pad?

Reactions: 1

b2trainer

Discussion Starter · #10 · 14 d ago

fishingguy12345 said:
It's pretty much impossible to add ventilation now without removing the frogs.

I added ventilation to a similar set up by drilling holes in the top of the glass and then attaching screen over the holes (so frogs don't escape). (The frogs need to be removed before doing this )

Is the "climbing frog" going to the side farthest away from the heat pad?

good to know! I Can do that!

There is a heatpad on both sides (it gets cold here in Michigan).The side he picks does not correlate with the heat pads.

fishingguy12345

· #11 · 14 d ago

My frog room is routinely 65F and the frogs don't have any adverse effects

. Supplemental heat may not be necessary for you.

b2trainer

Discussion Starter · #12 · 14 d ago

fishingguy12345 said:
My frog room is routinely 65F and the frogs don't have any adverse effects . Supplemental heat may not be necessary for you.

good to know! Thanks!

Reactions: 1

Socratic Monologue

· #13 · 14 d ago

b2trainer said:
When I purchased the calcium product it noted it was for dart frogs as well. However, I will do another look and stop using it right away if my findings are the same.

Accepting marketing claims on animal care products without fact checking them will lead to fatalities sooner or later. Sad, but true.

More on supplements here.

Also it would be valuable to search 'supplemental heating' here. A heat pad is distinctly not designed nor suited for the application at hand.

Reactions: 4

teviston

· #14 · 14 d ago

What kind of fruit flies are you feeding? The flies you would get for a tinc are different for a ranitomeya. For a thumbnail frogs like you have you need the melanogaster flies.

Ryno202

· #15 · 14 d ago

To your original question, aside from the myriad of other problems that others have covered, are you concerned that the frog is ONLY staying in that spot? Or just asking why the frog is CHOOSING that particular spot which seems odd to you?

I'd guess it may feel secure tucked in there. I would recommend some more bromeliads for sure. My Ranitomeya love them and regularly tuck into them for sleeping positions. They surprise me with the little nooks and crannies they can wriggle into.

Reactions: 5

JasonE

· #16 · 14 d ago (Edited)

Ranitomeya tend to like temps on the cooler side. Definitely get rid of your heat mats. A lot of ranitomeya species are found at higher elevations, where temps are cooler. I'm unsure about sirensis locale specifics though. I like to keep my ranitomeya in the low to mid 70's. I keep my house cold over winter nights. I've temped my tanks as low as 66 degrees in the morning and the frogs were still up, active and eating. I noticed when it hits 104 outside, and the tanks get above 80, all my ranitomeya hide. My best guess for why he's shoving himself up there is because it's the most comfortable place, temperature wise, that he can find.

Supplements - you don't need to research. The community has done it for you. Repashy calcium plus is the one to use. Other supplements lack the required vitamins/D3, and one day you're going to find your frog can't catch flies anymore because of short tongue syndrome. Or dies from some other symptom of vitamin or calcium deficiency.

Ventilation - I don't know what to tell you. Your only option is to remove the frogs and drill holes in the top. If the top comes off then it's a pretty easy fix, and you can have your frogs back in their cage within a day, depending on how long it takes for whatever glue you use to secure the screen to dry. If the top can't be removed, it's a bit more of a pain, but still a quick job.

Definitely agree on getting some neoregelia bromeliads up on the background. Your frogs will appreciate the hiding spots and you'll actually see them more. Frogs are much more comfortable coming out when they know safety is a single hop away.

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Hopout

· #17 · 14 d ago

Just chiming in to say that those are some cute frogs.

I agree with others about the ventilation, another benefit by getting an adequate ventilation is that you'll be able to see the frogs better so it's a win win.
And definitely read the post about supplementation, there's lots of good info there.

Best of luck!

Reactions: 2

fishingguy12345

· #18 · 14 d ago

Here's some good reading on Ranitomeya sirensis:

Ranitomeya sirensis - Intermediate to advanced

Ranitomeya sirensis "rio pachitea yellow"

Vivarium discussion Sept 28, 2020

Reactions: 4

Partsgardener

· #19 · 14 d ago

Was that a double zoomed incandescent lighting fixture and heating pad?
temperature may be an issue!

Reactions: 1

Partsgardener

· #20 · 14 d ago

What is too cold for dart frogs?

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