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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Seriously, on places like here and aquascaping sites, every new journal is about an ugly tank. I mean, a couple years ago like every single aquarium on xxx were really nice! But now, its all crap. Its like that here too. I guess if your a noob, or a breeder, then what it looks like-truly doesn't matter. My tanks aren't the prettiest (yet) but I don't go around bragging about it. Does anyone agree or am I just being too picky?
 

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I can see your point. I think alot of tanks anymore are throw togethers. Supplies are easier to come by now a days, so there is alot less planning. Grab what you need and throw it all together.

Vivariums are becoming more multi-purpose as well. One viv is good for what ever species. And is built and then immediately inhabited.

An azureus viv should have a plethora of boulders and rocks, while a Auratus viv should have some rocks and alot of buttress roots and a shoreline. But habitat isn't mimicked much any more.

Vivariums aren't really set up species habitat specific.
 

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Or maybe people are learning that the cool looking waterfall really doesn't serve any purpose for dart frogs.

And leaf litter is much more suitable then the mossy floor.

Maybe we're learning that was is pleasing to our eyes and what is pleasing to the frogs are two different things and many people are putting frogs first.
Just a thought.
 

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Hi Arpeggio,

Yes, you are being too picky. If you want to work on creating a visually-stunning terrarium, that's a great goal for you to have. If you are building a vivarium to house poison dart frogs, you will probably find that you can't shove 50 different plant species in there, have water features, and all moss and still have a good habitat for the frogs.

I would venture to say that more people are learning how to build for the frogs and not just for floral displays, and that is good for the hobby.

Take care, Richard.
 

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Or maybe our hobby is moving towards more functional tanks as opposed to prettier ones? I try to keep my vivs both functional and nice looking, though :D
 

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I agree, I've seen a number of tanks that are uninspiring. As well as a number of tanks that are overdone. Personally, I think the best tanks are some of the simplest, but well planned. You can have a very fine tank with moss, a few vines, and a couple broms. It's all dependent on how it is set up. In fact, I am more often than not, more impressed with those simpler tanks because they more accurately mimic natural conditions. My favorite tank of mine is my buttress tank, and I only have two broms (which have pupped), some moss, and a couple of vines. It's simple and elegant in its simplicity.

And I think that that is probably the biggest issue folks have is that they have not planned out the hardscape and where to put plants. In my experience, the most planning is dealing with the hardscape and visualizing how the tank will be finished before it's planted.
 

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I agree, I've seen a number of tanks that are uninspiring. As well as a number of tanks that are overdone. Personally, I think the best tanks are some of the simplest, but well planned. You can have a very fine tank with moss, a few vines, and a couple broms. It's all dependent on how it is set up. In fact, I am more often than not, more impressed with those simpler tanks because they more accurately mimic natural conditions. My favorite tank of mine is my buttress tank, and I only have two broms (which have pupped), some moss, and a couple of vines. It's simple and elegant in its simplicity.

And I think that that is probably the biggest issue folks have is that they have not planned out the hardscape and where to put plants. In my experience, the most planning is dealing with the hardscape and visualizing how the tank will be finished before it's planted.
Exactly my point. If you look at pictures of the habitat and plan it out, a simple design will provide all the needs and look better in my opion.
 

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I think this is the rudest post I've ever read on here.
First, what gives you the right to come on here and put other people down? Second, you have no idea about other people. Maybe they don't have much money and do what they can. Maybe they don't have much artistic talent. Maybe they never read that apparently there is a rule that it has to mimic the particular species habitat. Maybe they don't live near a nursery where they have access to many types of plants. Maybe they're 12 and just wanted to get frogs and didn't care about impressing other people. Maybe they were given frogs and had to come up with something quick. You have no idea. People like you don't even try to think about any of those possibilities, you just let the words fall out of your brain onto the keyboard.

Can you please let us all know the "right" way to make a viv?

But what gets me the most upset is that people might actually take pride in what they've done. What they've accomplished. They are proud of themselves and want to show what they've done, and you tell them it looks like crap.

I would like to go on, but I'm getting angrier by the moment. I've reported this post.:mad:
 

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I don't find the post rude at all, he didn't name anyone in particular, it was just a criticism of an observation he has made.
He said, "every new journal is about an ugly tank. I mean, a couple years ago like every single aquarium on xxx were really nice! But now, its all crap. Its like that here too."

He said your tanks are ugly and crap.
 

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When I look at a number of the enclosures that people are going crazy over on aesthetics, it appears to me that the frogs are an afterthought. This is reflected in a few threads where people post pictures of the enclosure and ask what they should put in it.

Often the enclosures are so heavily planted that there is little open area for terrestrial species to easily move around.

Just some comments...
 

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Personally, I think you are overreacting.

His opinion is just an observation.

I disagree with it - but everyone has the right to their own opinion/observation.

And for what it's worth, he had it in Thunderdome initially. Your reaction must be the one he anticipated by posting there.

s

He said, "every new journal is about an ugly tank. I mean, a couple years ago like every single aquarium on xxx were really nice! But now, its all crap. Its like that here too."

He said your tanks are ugly and crap.
 

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I spent a lot of time working on my first tank. A little less time on my second tank after I realized that the plants I really like are the ones that die first. :p

Now, I think about what will live in a suboptimal environment for plants and will give my frogs the best cover. My newest vivs consist of false bottom/drainage, substrate, and whatever cheap plants I can find that will live in a tank.

Some day I'd like to build a beautiful paludariam and maybe have frogs and/or fish in it. Some day. :)
 

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When I look at a number of the enclosures that people are going crazy over on aesthetics, it appears to me that the frogs are an afterthought. This is reflected in a few threads where people post pictures of the enclosure and ask what they should put in it.

YES...I've noted this, too. Shouldn't it be "I want X frog, what would be an ideal setup for it?"
 

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I think this is the rudest post I've ever read on here.
First, what gives you the right to come on here and put other people down? Second, you have no idea about other people. Maybe they don't have much money and do what they can. Maybe they don't have much artistic talent. Maybe they never read that apparently there is a rule that it has to mimic the particular species habitat. Maybe they don't live near a nursery where they have access to many types of plants. Maybe they're 12 and just wanted to get frogs and didn't care about impressing other people. Maybe they were given frogs and had to come up with something quick. You have no idea. People like you don't even try to think about any of those possibilities, you just let the words fall out of your brain onto the keyboard.

Can you please let us all know the "right" way to make a viv?

But what gets me the most upset is that people might actually take pride in what they've done. What they've accomplished. They are proud of themselves and want to show what they've done, and you tell them it looks like crap.

I would like to go on, but I'm getting angrier by the moment. I've reported this post.:mad:
Calm down a bit, man. If you're happy with your viv, who cares what a random stranger on the internet says about it?

Viv building is an art form, for sure, and the more one gets into it, the more one tends, and has opportunity, to experiment and try new things. It's a constant process. My favorite viv is a concrete viv, which is something I've not made in several vivariums. The one I made after that was another concrete viv, that I tore down, and tried some epiweb stuff and a drip wall to get moss going. I haven't tried that since, since I haven't figured out a way I can utilize it in the way that I want. The viv after that one, I created foam rocks with a drip wall. This last viv I am currently making is foam rocks without a drip wall.

It's all about experimentation and I'm constantly redoing my methods. If you're looking for visual aesthetics in your viv, I imagine you should also view vivarium building as an evolving process. I remember my first vivarium, which I was very proud of when I made it, and in retrospect looking at it, it was very basic and fairly visually unappealing. If you're into a visual environment for your viv, you should have this view. Otherwise, you're never going to improve upon your style.
 

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He said, "every new journal is about an ugly tank. I mean, a couple years ago like every single aquarium on xxx were really nice! But now, its all crap. Its like that here too."

He said your tanks are ugly and crap.
I am sure the word every is an exaggeration more or less meaning many. Either way I think you are taking this a bit too much to heart.

Ed, I do agree with your observations however, I don't agree with the notion some seem to have here that it can either be aesthetically pleasing or a spartan frogtopia. The places these frogs live are beautiful, with patience and careful planning one can have the best of both worlds, a beautiful and functional frog vivarium is entirely possible and it doesn't have to cost a fortune, although it doesn't hurt.;)
 

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snip...
And for what it's worth, he had it in Thunderdome initially. Your reaction must be the one he anticipated by posting there.

s
I wish you would have left it in the Thunderdome. IMO, Arpeggio is a really nice fella who wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feelings in the open forum. :(
 

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TDome is for controversial subjects. Not really frog subjects.

I don't consider this controversial and it really should be discussed openly.

Quite a few people go to TDome also - so it's not like it would be "hidden" there.

s
I wish you would have left it in the Thunderdome. IMO, Arpeggio is a really nice fella who wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feelings in the open forum. :(
 

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Arpeggio, I think you just need to take a better look around. There are some amazing threads that have come out recently. Revolution's exo, Arielelf's rocky exo, Ryan's buttress tree roots, RoberthValera's antique build. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder though, so maybe they arent your style...Perhaps my peninsula build is :p haha

Most of the nicer tanks tend to be larger, its proven science. Frog collectors simply cant put the effort into 50 tanks as a person can put into a feature viv, and that leads to them having to pinpoint the frog's natural habitat in the small amount of space they provide (leaves and a few plants) However I dont like how the collectors try and sway everybody in thinking tiny leaf litter tanks are better then a complex plant filled viv. Its a little closed minded to their ways of doing things. I hope the hobby starts to move towards the best of both worlds. Nothing wrong with having a water feature and all the doo-dads so long as the frogs needs are met also. Thats what I'm trying to do and Im proud of it.
 
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