[TERRIBle]

This should cause some commotion 😅

 

[fishingguy12345]

I love Ameerega...

 

[TERRIBle]

I love Ameerega...

Yea Ameerega Bassleri is pretty rad

 

[fishingguy12345]

Yea Ameerega Bassleri is pretty rad

Ameerega pepperi "yellow/gold"

 

[Fahad]

I chose Phyllobates because it contains two of my favourite species.

Although some large Oophaga are quite stunning visually; P. terribilis remains the king for me with their group-living-large-prey-eating-loud-calling-mug-you-in-broad-daylight-rowdy lifestyle.

 

[Kribensis]

P. terribilis remains the king for me with their group-living-large-prey-eating-loud-calling-mug-you-in-broad-daylight-rowdy lifestyle.

I love the smaller frogs, but phyllobates is really my favorite. My adult terribs are just so derpy and cute, along with being just AMAZING to look at. That's the perfect description of them as adults. As babies, not so much, but when they grow up, they're the boldest (and hungriest) frog I know of.

Ameerega pepperi "yellow/gold"

View attachment 296996

That's gorgeous! I've added another frog to my "get eventually" list.

 

[Fahad]

That's the perfect description of them as adults. As babies, not so much, but when they grow up, they're the boldest (and hungriest) frog I know of.

So I've noticed some variation in froglets. I've reared clutches that contain a mix of shy and aggressive froglets, while some clutches are all 100% aggressive -- sure they'll flee if I get too close, but spend more time in the open and hunt much more aggressively. Same parents, sometimes within days of each other, so maybe it's just a roll of the genetic dice.

Hypothetically, an aggressive hunter risks predation but grows faster, hoping to cross that threshold into truly nasty toxicity. Maybe a stealthy and cautious froglet trades a longer period of vulnerability for a lower-risk approach.

Whether they're being intentionally sneaky or just getting out-competed or dominated by their siblings is an open question. I do monitor froglets and on occasion pull one or two that are showing signs of being bullied. They rapidly regain any ground they've lost, but may remain cryptic.

This is making some broad assumptions:

• That density of prey items in their wild environment is such that active prowling confers a growth advantage over ambush.
• That their behaviour in a stimulus-rich wild environment would be similar to the relatively stimulus-poor conditions present in captivity, e.g. less local vibration and movement.
• That the boldest wild froglets don't tend to get selected out by predation.

Pondering this, it's easy to see how quickly we alter the gene pool for these animals within just one generation of captive breeding, never mind years of same.

EDIT: Sorry, just realized that was wildly off-topic. 😬

 

[TERRIBle]

Ameerega pepperi "yellow/gold"

View attachment 296996

wowwwww thats a cool frog right there

 

[TERRIBle]

I chose Phyllobates because it contains two of my favourite species.

Although some large Oophaga are quite stunning visually; P. terribilis remains the king for me with their group-living-large-prey-eating-loud-calling-mug-you-in-broad-daylight-rowdy lifestyle.

Lets go Phyllobates gang 👌

 

[Socratic Monologue]

Ranitomeya. I'd write 'Ranitomeya', like it is supposed to be written, but when you're this excellent, you don't need no stinking italics.

-- Parental care? Check. (Though not tied to it, like Oophaga. It is optional. Freedom of choice -- these guys are as American as... um...well, better skip this part. Too soon, I think. Sorry for bringing it up.)

-- Mullerian mimicry. The cool kind.

-- Some species are monogamous. It doesn't get much more wholesome than that.

-- The males of some species invite neighbor kids over, and feed them to their own kids. It doesn't get much more metal than that.

-- They have both the ability to teleport, and a cloak of invisibility. Magicians, or ninjas? You decide.

 

[TERRIBle]

Ranitomeya

I have a comeback to that. Are you ready to get roasted? Ranitomeyas are SMALL .......ish

 

[Socratic Monologue]

I have a comeback to that. Are you ready to get roasted? Ranitomeyas are SMALL

I was going to add that to the list of awesome characteristics of Ranitomeya, but I didn't want to rub it in too hard.

 

[Chris S]

-- Mullerian mimicry. The cool kind.

Wouldn't this be more specific to R. imitator?

 

[Socratic Monologue]

Wouldn't this be more specific to R. imitator?

Yes -- well, sort of, since both species of the mimic pair benefit, both are Mullerian mimics, so R. imitator, fantastica, variabilis and summersi (I think that's all of them) all count.

All the characteristics I listed are specific to one or more but not all species in the genus -- I could've been more clear on that.

 

[Chris S]

Yes -- well, sort of, since both species of the mimic pair benefit, both are Mullerian mimics, so R. imitator, fantastica, variabilis and summersi (I think that's all of them) all count.

All the characteristics I listed are specific to one or more but not all species in the genus -- I could've been more clear on that.

Indeed - and it is a slightly different definition of Mullerian mimicry than the definition would imply, as the imitators are the only species changing their characteristics (and to multiple different species), rather than having a mutual convergence or change. Imitators were the first amphibians to display monogamy, and some recent studies on imitators also show them as a guide to the evolution of new species, with studies on their transitional zones and on their inclination to reproduce with similar looking imitators, rather than ones displaying mimicry to another species. I love these guys, they are far and beyond my favourite dart species!

 

[Socratic Monologue]

Indeed - and it is a slightly different definition of Mullerian mimicry than the definition would imply, as the imitators are the only species changing their characteristics (and to multiple different species), rather than having a mutual convergence or change.

Are there studies on this for Ranitomeya? Since Mullerian mimicry is mutualistic, the expectation would be that both the mimic and the model would experience selective pressures driving convergence.

Imitators were the first amphibians to display monogamy,

I had thought this about vanzolinii, but looking back I realize that they were the first frog discovered to exhibit pair bonding.

AmphibiaWeb - Ranitomeya vanzolinii

amphibiaweb.org

 

[Chris S]

Are there studies on this for Ranitomeya? Since Mullerian mimicry is mutualistic, the expectation would be that both the mimic and the model would experience selective pressures driving convergence.

AmphibiaWeb - Ranitomeya vanzolinii

amphibiaweb.org

I was trying to find the exact article I read it in, I thought it was one written by Twomey, but I can't find it now. It might have been a smaller portion in a larger article...I try to keep track, but I even find sometimes understanding the scholarly articles difficult sometimes. There are some articles supporting advergence actually being a more common type of Mullerian mimicry (as opposed to mutualistic). The wikipedia (Yea...I know, wikipedia!) article actually has quite a few good sources linked, with this one being the main source:

Ruxton, Graeme; Speed, M. P.; Sherratt, T. N. (2004). Avoiding Attack. The Evolutionary Ecology of Crypsis, Warning Signals and Mimicry.

I haven't read that article however. If I come across the one I did read, I will try to remember to link it!

Looking at the morphs of all the "target" species, I think it is easy to see there is less variation in appearance than imitator, and even clear delineations of where certain morphs start and end. Imitator seems to be not only polymorphic, but extremely variable, especially in transitional zones - very cool nonetheless (even if I can't find a scholarly article, sorry!).

 

[Chris S]

and some recent studies on imitators also show them as a guide to the evolution of new species, with studies on their transitional zones and on their inclination to reproduce with similar looking imitators, rather than ones displaying mimicry to another species. I love these guys, they are far and beyond my favourite dart species!

Here is one of the articles supporting the above:

Reproductive isolation related to mimetic divergence in the poison frog Ranitomeya imitator

 

[Chris S]

Are there studies on this for Ranitomeya? Since Mullerian mimicry is mutualistic, the expectation would be that both the mimic and the model would experience selective pressures driving convergence.

Here we go, I think this was the article I had read. This one isn't a free article however:

Mechanisms for Color Convergence in a Mimetic Radiation of Poison Frogs

 

[boardingfool]

I love my Phyllobates terribilis, they are soo bold and fun to watch. I swear they sit at the front of the glass watching me and telling me to feed them. When i open the doors they mob the fruit fly cup when i feed them. And when i try to trim up the plants, they just sit there watching me. They are always a crowd favorite when i have company over.