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So are you saying that since RO is more pure than rain water, that it shouldn't be used on PDF vivs? Or that now a days rainwater is so polluted that it shouldn't be used? Just in case and to clarify, I never advocated the use of rainwater, I was just using it more as an example, albeit a bad one.
Sorry!
 

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So are you saying that since RO is more pure than rain water, that it shouldn't be used on PDF vivs? Or that now a days rainwater is so polluted that it shouldn't be used? Just in case and to clarify, I never advocated the use of rainwater, I was just using it more as an example, albeit a bad one.
Sorry!
RO and distilled are fine to use in enclosures. Some of the old literature on the "Harmfulness" of RO/DI water was shown to be due to metal salts contaminating the distilled water in the original papers due to problems in the distilation process. There is a citation in the new issue of Leaf Litter to that effect.

I was pointing out that Rainwater may not be the water of choice to use anymore....

Ed
 

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I have a Reverse Osmosis unit hooked up to my sink and it cost me about 200 dollars. You wouldnt believe the stuff it pulls out of my water. The white filter cartridge is now fully brown after like 2 months but the R.O. water works great. You can also buy it in some fish stores they might sell purified or r.o. water. They also sell some cheap units to purify water.
 

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Hey Guys, I'm new to this, and am getting ready to get my first tank put together. I've been reading over some of these posts, and am kinda confused. My parents have a distiller, so distilled water would not be an issue to me, but could not afford to get a R.O. system or anything- I'm cheap. lol. But some posts say that distilled does not have any of the minerals the frogs need, so spring would be better, right? From what I understand, I will want to have Spring water resevoir, and Distilled to mist. Hope I'm on the right track.

I'm trying to go through the Beginner Threads, and learn as much as possible. ;)

Any advice- whether replying, email, or IM would be GREATLY appreciated!

Thanks!
 

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Hey Guys, I'm new to this, and am getting ready to get my first tank put together. I've been reading over some of these posts, and am kinda confused. My parents have a distiller, so distilled water would not be an issue to me, but could not afford to get a R.O. system or anything- I'm cheap. lol. But some posts say that distilled does not have any of the minerals the frogs need, so spring would be better, right? From what I understand, I will want to have Spring water resevoir, and Distilled to mist. Hope I'm on the right track.

I'm trying to go through the Beginner Threads, and learn as much as possible. ;)

Any advice- whether replying, email, or IM would be GREATLY appreciated!

Thanks!
To get around some of the water quality issues, a number of us take RO or distilled water and add RO right to it to restore the dissolved minerals and salts to the water. This is called reconstituted RO/DI water and is fine to use in the tank provided you are doing water changes. If you just continue to add water with minerals to the tank, you will eventually get salt buildups on the higher points in the tank as water is drawn up to evaporate.

The distilled water is fine to use as a misting or adding to the tank to replace water that has evaporated.

Ed
 

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Yes more or less. They are basically saying that reverse osmosis and distilled water AT 100 PERCENT CONCENTRATION is harmful for amphibians, which makes sense if you think back to grade 9 science when you learned about osmosis. Electrolytes flow from an area of high concentration (your frog) to and area of low concentration (reverse osmosis and distilled water). Need I say that is harmful? Personally I have never used reverse osmosis water or distilled with any amphibians, I only use treated tap water and spring water.
There are actually studies out now that indicate that distilled/RO water is not a problem as was once thought. (For those who are interested I suggest the book Ecologican and Enviormental Physiology of Amphibians).
It turns out that amphibians including frogs can actively scavenge ions back out of the water. So unless the frog is really sick all it really does is put a bit of metabolic stress on the frog and then only if it cannot get out of the water. This would only happen if you pulled the frog out of the tank and put it in a container like a rubbermaid with a lid..

Ed
 

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i work for a auto part supply company an we sell deionized water intended to fill car batteries so deposits don't build up inside. would be really handy if i could use this for my Viv when its finished as i get a nice staff discount on it an we sell it in 25 liter bottles which would make nice water containers. pretty sure this stuffs safe, drank some myself whilst dyeing of thirst from a hangover, didn't suffer any ill affects that i know of at least. plan on getting an RO system eventually but maybe this water is actually better since it goes through the full DI process.
 

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i work for a auto part supply company an we sell deionized water intended to fill car batteries so deposits don't build up inside. would be really handy if i could use this for my Viv when its finished as i get a nice staff discount on it an we sell it in 25 liter bottles which would make nice water containers. pretty sure this stuffs safe, drank some myself whilst dyeing of thirst from a hangover, didn't suffer any ill affects that i know of at least. plan on getting an RO system eventually but maybe this water is actually better since it goes through the full DI process.
How often are the levels of total dissovled solids tested before replacing the ion absorbtion media?

Ed
 

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How often are the levels of total dissovled solids tested before replacing the ion absorbtion media?

Ed
could'nt say tbh, my work place doesn't make it we just sell it, the brand is carplan tho. i should imagine it goes through stringent quality control tho because any minerals in it would destroy battery cells, an make the product pointless. but i guess it would be better to test it than just assume.
 

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As an newcomer, I would like to state that most questions posted on this site, often are not answered. Is this hobby still so new that there are not definitive answers?
 

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As an newcomer, I would like to state that most questions posted on this site, often are not answered. Is this hobby still so new that there are not definitive answers?
It's because there is no consensus on a lot of the questions that are asked(or as often found on forums, people ride on anecdote). The fact is that we are trying to replicate an environment that is incredibly complex, and for animals that are in themselves complex.

That being said, Ed basically did answer the question in post #67 and #69.
I've personally used RO water in aquariums and in my Vivs without any trouble(<--anecdote). I'd rather use RO/distilled water, than some filtered slag that they sell as spring water, and know for a fact that it's clean. If you are worried about osmotic balance, remineralize your RO/distilled water with any number of products available for the aquarium hobby made just for this purpose(but as Ed said.. you'll have to watch the salt build up -the water evaps, the minerals do not). The only downside to that, is that you don't have full control over what they put in the remineralizer.. so you are kind of in the same boat for impurities and unwanted additives.
 

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i work for a auto part supply company an we sell deionized water intended to fill car batteries so deposits don't build up inside. would be really handy if i could use this for my Viv when its finished as i get a nice staff discount on it an we sell it in 25 liter bottles which would make nice water containers. pretty sure this stuffs safe, drank some myself whilst dyeing of thirst from a hangover, didn't suffer any ill affects that i know of at least. plan on getting an RO system eventually but maybe this water is actually better since it goes through the full DI process.
I use deionized water for everything, including for my FF cultures.

Oh, I don't test my DI water I buy either.
 

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As an newcomer, I would like to state that most questions posted on this site, often are not answered. Is this hobby still so new that there are not definitive answers?
This is a problem for new people. There is more than one right answer in the hobby. What works for some doesn't work for others. Most people on here report what works for their 5 or 10 frogs but something else may work for another persons 5 or 10 frogs. Sometimes it is easier to private message someone for a direct answer. Why? Because their way is often not "the gold standard" on the board. This is one of the problems with a public forum where any person can be an expert :)
 

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As an newcomer, I would like to state that most questions posted on this site, often are not answered. Is this hobby still so new that there are not definitive answers?
Actually there are many discussions that are supported by documented facts and not based on anecdotal or dogmatic answers.... For example, this discussion on water, the dogma, and what the science actually says about it... http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/70300-water-discussion.html

The truth is out there if you look....

Ed
 
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Minerals and Solids can only evaporate under conditions that would have left water vaporized 1000's of degrees before.

It allows the chlorine and other chemicals in the water that might be harmful to frogs to evaporate. But, we usually prefer to err on the side of caution, and use spring water, or reverse osmosis.
They no longer use just chlorine. They use a chlorine compound called a chloramine which is chlorine bound to ammonia. This DOES not evaporate and you HAVE to use a chlorine/ chloramine remover to make tap water safe. frogs, fish, turtles go bye bye if you dont use the remover.

I would use RO or distilled water with a buffer such as RO right in it. This is to restore some of the electrolites to the water. Other than that frogs dont seem to picky. You can use tap water but Id avoid it with everything that is in it these days. There is a wholeee lot more than just chloramines in it.
 

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This DOES not evaporate and you HAVE to use a chlorine/ chloramine remover to make tap water safe.
Actually the chlorine smell around a swimming pool is not due to free chlorine but chloramine so we can readily demonstrate that it actually does evaporate from solution particularly when the solution is aerated, it just takes much longer to evaporate than chlorine does by itself.

frogs, fish, turtles go bye bye if you dont use the remover.
Right off the bat, I'm throwing the BS flag on turtles. That is a piece of dogma that has been passed around for a long time without any supporting documentation. In extreme levels, it can irritate the eyes of a chelonian, but you need significant levels well above that found in tapwater systems (like that of a public pool).


And while chloramines can cause issues with aquatic species (it also depends on the chloramine), and larval amphibians, it depends entirely on a number of conditions.. Typically the one we are looking at is NH2Cl, which is the monomer. Unlike chlorine, it doesn't cause damage to the gills but suffiicent levels (which can be as high as 0.8 ppm Cl (using an accurate test kit) for certain fish (and tap water is often well below that level), are absorbed and bind to the hemoglobin resulting in a form of methemoglobin... There is a real risk if you simply neutralize the chlorine atom (which many dechlorinators do), as it leaves all of the ammonia as free ammonia, and that can actually be more toxic to the animals, then the chloramine originally was.....

Ed
 

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Actually the chlorine smell around a swimming pool is not due to free chlorine but chloramine so we can readily demonstrate that it actually does evaporate from solution particularly when the solution is aerated, it just takes much longer to evaporate than chlorine does by itself.



Right off the bat, I'm throwing the BS flag on turtles. That is a piece of dogma that has been passed around for a long time without any supporting documentation. In extreme levels, it can irritate the eyes of a chelonian, but you need significant levels well above that found in tapwater systems (like that of a public pool).


And while chloramines can cause issues with aquatic species (it also depends on the chloramine), and larval amphibians, it depends entirely on a number of conditions.. Typically the one we are looking at is NH2Cl, which is the monomer. Unlike chlorine, it doesn't cause damage to the gills but suffiicent levels (which can be as high as 0.8 ppm Cl (using an accurate test kit) for certain fish (and tap water is often well below that level), are absorbed and bind to the hemoglobin resulting in a form of methemoglobin... There is a real risk if you simply neutralize the chlorine atom (which many dechlorinators do), as it leaves all of the ammonia as free ammonia, and that can actually be more toxic to the animals, then the chloramine originally was.....

Ed
Ed you are a god on here. You just raped my seemingly good sense right out of my brain and shoved the real info in. And explained in one well written paragraph why the customers who come into the fish store I work at always have high ammonia despite using a commercial chlorine/chloramine remover before the cycle starts...I thought it was high ammonia content in tap water but alas! It could be high concentration as well as the remover product they used.
 

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Ed you are a god on here. You just raped my seemingly good sense right out of my brain and shoved the real info in. And explained in one well written paragraph why the customers who come into the fish store I work at always have high ammonia despite using a commercial chlorine/chloramine remover before the cycle starts...I thought it was high ammonia content in tap water but alas! It could be high concentration as well as the remover product they used.
As a primary fish hobbyist, many of the chemicals you use to remove ammonia and other unwanted things in water will give you a false reading of ammonia. You many actually be around 0 ppm for ammonia but tests will give you a much higher reading. I personally have never used anything other than tap water, both well and city waters, with success in some areas and move 10 miles down the road and can't even keep guppies without major issues. Where I live now, I have a very high levels of phosphates which has turned keeping fish into a serious challenge. I still haven't been able to bring myself to buy a R/O system but one of these days I will. As stated before in a previous post, R/O with trace elements added are probably the best route.
 
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