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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am getting PDF soon and dont know what to get or how many! I am thinkin of luecs or tincs. I have all my other research done.

HOW MANY PDF IN A 20 gallon Long?

What kind is the BEST beginner?:confused:

Thanks:D

Dan
 

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I am getting PDF soon and dont know what to get or how many! I am thinkin of luecs or tincs. I have all my other research done.

HOW MANY PDF IN A 20 gallon Long?

What kind is the BEST beginner?:confused:

Thanks:D

Dan
Well the rule of thumb is 5 gallons per frog. Which a twenty gallon would take 4. I know 4 leucs would be fine in a 20 gallon enclosure. PDFs like Azureus dont do well in groups. They need their space and its best to keep them in pairs. I recommend getting leucs if its your first PDFs. :D
 

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Well the rule of thumb is 5 gallons per frog. Which a twenty gallon would take 4. I know 4 leucs would be fine in a 20 gallon enclosure. PDFs like Azureus dont do well in groups. They need their space and its best to keep them in pairs. I recommend getting leucs if its your first PDFs. :D
That is a horrible rule of thumb from the beginning IMO...

and I believe most are pushing atleast 10 gallons per frog...

and besides, 4 in a 20 seems a little crowded to me, so with that said, i say 2.
 

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three luec two tincs. Tincs need to be two male, male female. Luecs should get along no matter the sex but two females may fight. If they do you'll need to separate them. Great first frogs and great for experience hobbiests. Still some of my favs after 8 years of frog keeping.
 

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That is a horrible rule of thumb from the beginning IMO...

and I believe most are pushing atleast 10 gallons per frog...

and besides, 4 in a 20 seems a little crowded to me, so with that said, i say 2.
Im just passing along from what i read on the forums. It also depends on how you build your viv. If you have enough hiding spots for all four frogs, i dont see why not . As long as you dont see any bullying or a frog is eating then its fine. 4 leucs are fine you dont wanna have 3 or 2 in a tank.
 

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Im just passing along from what i read on the forums. It also depends on how you build your viv. If you have enough hiding spots for all four frogs, i dont see why not . As long as you dont see any bullying or a frog is not eating then its fine. 4 leucs are fine you dont wanna have 3 or 2 in a tank.
it's an old rule that a lot of people are trying to rule out...

even with enough cover, 4 seems a little crowded, heck i think 3 looks crowded in my 33 gallon...

...you dont wanna have 3 or 2 in a tank.
why don't you want to have 2 or 3 in a tank?
 

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it's an old rule that a lot of people are trying to rule out...

even with enough cover, 4 seems a little crowded, heck i think 3 looks crowded in my 33 gallon...



why don't you want to have 2 or 3 in a tank?
I just wouldn't have an odd number. If its two males or two females its usually trouble. Two i guess would be fine depends on the person. I have only 6 in my 60 gallon. Im planning on going to 8 or 10. I have enough hiding spots.:p I also had a 5 gallon tank and its enough space for one frog lol. I guess also depends how big the type of PDF's your getting. I know tincs grow pretty big. Leucs im assuming arent big as tincs are or Auratus
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
My tank is going to be live planted...does that help?
 

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My tank is going to be live planted...does that help?
Yes, make sure on the plants you pick. Deff, have bromeliads. :D Also if you having plant trouble you can use the Search button up on top. DB will be your best tool you have.:D
 

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Yes, most tank have only live plants which makes things more balanced. You don't need bromeliads, but they are a popular choice for many people. That said, I would say a pair of tincs, or 2-3 leucs. It would also be good to see pictures of the tanks so we can make other suggestions if needed. Don't worry about having an "odd number" with leucs, I actually think a 2.1 trio is the best way to keep them for breeding.
Bryan

*Edit*- A pair of tincs might be better than leucs since a 20 gallon long doesn't have much height, and leucs do climb a little bit, but either one could probably work fine.
 
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Yes, most tank have only live plants which makes things more balanced. You don't need bromeliads, but they are a popular choice for many people. That said, I would say a pair of tincs, or 2-3 leucs. It would also be good to see pictures of the tanks so we can make other suggestions if needed. Don't worry about having an "odd number" with leucs, I actually think a 2.1 trio is the best way to keep them for breeding.
Bryan
:(. I guess its a learning process :D
 

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I just wouldn't have an odd number. If its two males or two females its usually trouble.
For leucs?! they are a group frog... but if there's 2 of each it's ok?

and IMO an odd number of frogs look better and slightly more natural [kinda like a bonsai forest setup, i know, weird comparison, but its all i could think of.]
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
i am still in the process of planting/making the drainage... i need to buy plants.

2.1 luecs sounds good!the bumblebee frogs <3-no ****
 

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I have tincs and love them but I heard really good things about leucs too. they are a little smaller too so they would fit better in a 20 gallon. just an idea though: start with 2 - its better to easy yourself into the hobby AND you can always buy another later, depending on what sex your other 2 turn out to be. For example, its better to find out you have 2 males so you can buy a female than it is to find out you just bought 3 frogs of the same sex!! another possible advantage to this is that you can buy from another breeder so you aren't encouraging inbreeding
 

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Well the rule of thumb is 5 gallons per frog. Which a twenty gallon would take 4. I know 4 leucs would be fine in a 20 gallon enclosure. PDFs like Azureus dont do well in groups. They need their space and its best to keep them in pairs. I recommend getting leucs if its your first PDFs. :D
I've always been curious abut the background and the false bottoms taking up space there fore decreasing the tanks size inside....
Like if you take a 2 gallona and put a lot of plants, big background, high subtrate...wouldn't that mean you can't put as many as you thought?
 

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I've always been curious abut the background and the false bottoms taking up space there fore decreasing the tanks size inside....
Like if you take a 2 gallona and put a lot of plants, big background, high subtrate...wouldn't that mean you can't put as many as you thought?
I guess people took acount of that when they gave that "rule of thumb". I guess its 5 gallons after you finish your viv. Idk :confused:
 

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I've always been curious abut the background and the false bottoms taking up space there fore decreasing the tanks size inside....
Like if you take a 2 gallona and put a lot of plants, big background, high subtrate...wouldn't that mean you can't put as many as you thought?
Usually, yes. For something like a forest floor species that dwells among leaf litter, you wouldn't want the whole bottom to be taken up with plants- you want to keep the floor space open. Backgrounds can actually increase the amount of usable space, but it depends on the specifics frogs and tank. For example, if you have a 20 gallon vert for vents, and you have no background (just plants on the floor, and plain glass everywhere else), that would not be as good as if you added a 1-2" deep background on the back and/or sides which the frogs will be more likely to climb on and use, even though it takes up a bit of space. On the other hand, for a pair of tincs in a 20 gallon long, a 2-3" thick background might be a waste of that much floorspace, since they almost never climb on a vertical background for long.
Regardless, this is one of the reasons the x number of gallons per frog as a rule of thumb is never an exact method and shouldn't be used each time- different frogs require different types of habitats, and some keepers are better than others at maximizing useful space and niches for species than others, among other things.
Bryan
 
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Usually, yes. For something like a forest floor species that dwells among leaf litter, you wouldn't want the whole bottom to be taken up with plants- you want to keep the floor space open. Backgrounds can actually increase the amount of usable space, but it depends on the specifics frogs and tank. For example, if you have a 20 gallon vert for vents, and you have no background (just plants on the floor, and plain glass everywhere else), that would not be as good as if you added a 1-2" deep background on the back and/or sides which the frogs will be more likely to climb on and use, even though it takes up a bit of space. On the other hand, for a pair of tincs in a 20 gallon long, a 2-3" thick background might be a waste of that much floorspace, since they almost never climb on a vertical background for long.
Regardless, this is one of the reasons the x number of gallons per frog as a rule of thumb is never an exact method and shouldn't be used each time- different frogs require different types of habitats, and some keepers are better than others at maximizing useful space and niches for species than others, among other things.
Bryan
Thanks
Yeah I think an assesment as far as to how many should be done after the build.
Say like a 20g is used and they make like hills and whatnot, got all the plants and the hut.
Id say about between or at 5 gallons is taken off most smaller tanks due to the background and everything that's put into the tank....there for in a 20g take away that 5 gallons and that means only 3 can go in.
I understand your point that if they are a climbing species then the background is an addition so 4 would be fine but if they're ground dwellers I myself would be safe and only go for 3. Especially starting out then when I got more exsperianced then I could push things to maximum capacity.
I think he should be safe and only go with 3
 

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I guess people took acount of that when they gave that "rule of thumb". I guess its 5 gallons after you finish your viv. Idk :confused:
The problem with rule of thumbs in general are that they're too general. 5 gallons a frog for vents might be fine, but 5 gallons a frog for terribilis are a different story. Tincs don't do well in groups, so for a 20 gallon tank you can't apply it. Size, behavior, usable space (especially in comparison to how much the specific frog will use)... there are too many variables.


The best process to take is to assume that all rule of thumbs are utter crap, and go do research on the specific frog you're looking for.
 
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