[Dendrobatid]

Someone locally contacted me today to tell me he bought this pumilio for $99 in a pet store. I tried to explain to him that without the import and locale information he wouldn't really be able to prove what locale it was. He said that he really felt sorry for it and it was being housed in a unplanted tank with dry wood bark. The store had it labeled as a strawberry dart frog. I think it might be a cristobal, but I know members on here have quite a bit more experience with Pumilio than I do. He has no intentions on breeding or selling it, but just felt really bad for it and wanted to rescue it.

Thanks,

Jim G.

.

 

[Scott]

Given what it is available WC right now - the odds are VERY high it's an El Dorado.

s

 

[Scott]

Also - while your friends intentions are good - the results are not.

The store doesn't care why they sold it, they just know they sold it and made a profit on it, thereby guaranteeing they'll do it again - maybe a few more next time.

s

 

[Dendrobatid]

Scott,
I couldn't agree with you more!

Thanks for the input.

Jim G.

 

[james67]

i agree with scott. although its impossible to tell for sure, and therefore should not be bred, it looks to be an "el dorado".

james

 

[Tony]

I'll throw in a third vote for "looks like an El Dorado".

 

[edwardsatc]

i agree with scott. although its impossible to tell for sure, and therefore should not be bred, it looks to be an "el dorado".

james

I'd normally agree that a NOID not be bred, but in the case of these imported pumilio, none of them have reliable locality info. So it's either match them up as best as possible or breed none of them.

 

[james67]

how so? although there is confusion with pumilio locale differences and some import information is vague at best, we can still do our best to match frogs by importer and import date. the OP COULD contact the wholesaler that the retailer purchased the frog from, and get the importers info, call them and find out some more, possibly who else got frogs from this shipment and when it was, they could possibly locate another frog. i just feel like your statement made the situation out to seem like there isnt any data on any pumilio so just breed whatever, and i think thats a dangerous attitude to have. a lot of us DO take the time to make these phone calls and to gather as much info as possible, and i for one dont want someone mistaking what your saying as a suggestion to essentially destroy the work others have done to attempt to keep "lines" as pure as is possible.

james

my guess of "el dorado" is just for fun. there is absolutely no way to definitively tell from a picture of a frog, where it came from.

 

[Dendrobatid]

James,
Not sure if you always read what people write in it's entirety before you comment. I'm not picking on you because I do think that you points are valid. That being said, I'm the OP and I clearly stated that it is not my frog and the person that owns it is not going to breed it or sell it. Why you would feel the need to repeat that again I really don't know. I really would like to believe that you are a nice person and concerned with the way you are perceived. But it seems like every time I post something you go on a negative rant about things that the post is not about. I actually know the person that works in this store where I occasionally buy crickets. I told him that he should not purchase pumilio from any shady individuals due to the fact that it is important to have locale information. This from was purchased from Strictly Reptiles. I was just curious to what people thought about this frog as I stated because Pumilio are not my specialty. I certainly did not post this to start any arguments. But from past experiences should have known better. lol. Thanks for all you help I'm sure it is all my fault for miss understanding your posts.

 

[Pumilo]

Dendrobatid, I really don't think this is an arguement, just a healthy discussion. Your question has been answered as probable El Dorado. Now people are just taking it a step further. Is it, in fact, possible to try and find a mate? Donn pointed out that all the recent importations are pretty much guesswork. James is reinforcing that you can't go mixing importation dates.
I'm guessing that when Donn (edwardsatc) says to "match them up as best as possible", he means as best as possible. That would mean finding the importation date and getting a mate that looks as similar as possible, from the same importation.
I don't want to put words in anybodies mouth...this is just how I interpreted the discussion.

 

[Dendrobatid]

Pumilio,
No worries at all! I didn't really mean it to come of that serious. I really do appreciate every ones input.

Thanks,

Jim G.

 

[edwardsatc]

how so? although there is confusion with pumilio locale differences and some import information is vague at best, we can still do our best to match frogs by importer and import date. the OP COULD contact the wholesaler that the retailer purchased the frog from, and get the importers info, call them and find out some more, possibly who else got frogs from this shipment and when it was, they could possibly locate another frog.

That's what I meant by match them up as best as possible. I could have been a bit more specific. I agree, at least stay with the same importation. My point was that even within this latest shipment we have no idea what's what. We're simply relying on how the importer sorts them and what they call them. I've seen what appear to be similar frogs labeled as christobal,el dorado, or bri bri. Some appear to be obviously mislabeled. If froggers with years of experience cannot tell these frogs apart (as in the frog in the OP), we can hardly expect that the importers can/are. If you buy a few orange frogs from the recent imports, what are you getting? Are they even all the same morph?

i just feel like your statement made the situation out to seem like there isnt any data on any pumilio so just breed whatever, and i think thats a dangerous attitude to have. a lot of us DO take the time to make these phone calls and to gather as much info as possible, and i for one dont want someone mistaking what your saying as a suggestion to essentially destroy the work others have done to attempt to keep "lines" as pure as is possible.

Not my intent, but as I have stated, the orange frogs from the most recent importation are a mess. If the frog above should not be bred because we (experienced froggers) cannot reliably id it, then neither can we rely on the piss poor attempt at the importer/jobber ID. I think the odds of pairing that frog up with the same morph are about equal to hoping a pair coming from the importer are the same morph (with these orange frogs).

So how do we pair up any of these recent orange imports? I would say pair them up as best as possible and just call them Orange pumilio (Spring 2011 imports)

Incidently, my guess on the above pumilio would also be El Dorado.

 

[james67]

sorry if that came off as argumentative. it wasnt intended to be. i guess have a tenancy to type things that i guess people can misinterpret as hostile. you cant convey tone with text.

i was simply trying to say that it IS possible to pair your friends frog up (something they may want to do at some point over the frogs possible 10+ year lifespan) and that the information will be more easily accessed sooner than later. that being said i felt it was unfair to say " in the case of these imported pumilio, none of them have reliable locality info. So it's either match them up as best as possible or breed none of them" because we can and do still match up frogs with imperfect locale data based on import and date, and simply disregarding this (as i felt might be the message might have unintentionally seemed to suggest) is a bit silly.

james

 

[Pumilo]

Good point James. He should get as much information as he can right now. There's no telling if he might want to breed it a number of years down the line. I think the vast majority of frog breeders must have started out as just a hobbyist wanting a sweet, new pet.
In a couple of years, it may be far too late to get the crucial info.

 

[edwardsatc]

No worries. I think we are basically on the same page here.

Admittedly, my first post was not clearly stated and could have been interpreted as you described.

Bottom line for me - Any orange frog from the most recent importation is a crap shoot ...

 

[Dendrobatid]

James,
I totally agree that at times text can be easily misconstrued. I shouldn't have jumped the gun. I just didn't want anyone to think that I don't do my homework. I do my best to only buy captive bred animals from reliable known locales. I was actually politely asked to leave this store today for giving them shit for the way they were keeping their Pumilio! While it wasn't the first time and probably won't be the last! . They also looked to have what I thought was a Almirante Pumilio in another horrible set-up.

 

[Ed]

So how do we pair up any of these recent orange imports? I would say pair them up as best as possible and just call them Orange pumilio (Spring 2011 imports)

Incidently, my guess on the above pumilio would also be El Dorado.

It would be fine to even call them El Dorado 2011.. as long as that was kept with the animals through any subsequent transactions.
Given that it was in a pet store and the relatively recent imports, it is most probably from that import so it can be paired with frogs from that import that are phenotypically the same as there isn't any other good way to pair it up.

 

[edwardsatc]

It would be fine to even call them El Dorado 2011.. as long as that was kept with the animals through any subsequent transactions.
Given that it was in a pet store and the relatively recent imports, it is most probably from that import so it can be paired with frogs from that import that are phenotypically the same as there isn't any other good way to pair it up.

That sums it up nicely and concisely.

Pretty much what I was trying to say but much less verbose and confusing. My communication skills suck tonight ...

 

[Ed]

That sums it up nicely and concisely.

Pretty much what I was trying to say but much less verbose and confusing. My communication skills suck tonight ...

At least you didn't post something like this... (http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/northeast/67965-twas-night-before-frog-day-10.html#post596375)