[Scott Richardson]

Some are against mixing because they honestly believe they are going to someday repopulate the wild with their frogs. The frogs are not in danger of extinction, their habitat is. So, there won't be anywhere to put them, and they probably wouldn't survive anyhow being captive bred.

Some are against mixing, because they are sheep. They read that mixing is bad, so their opinion is that it is bad. Opinions are like buttholes, everyone has one.

Then there is the third group of anti mixing people........

Because of deforestation, there is a really good chance that these frogs may some day disappear from the wild because their natural habitat is no longer there. So, in what could be loosely considered a conservation effort, this group wants to keep all of the lines pure so there are prime examples of each frog around for the future. Different Morphs of the same species are really all the same family of frog, but their coloration differs from locale to locale. This is the reason that this group wants to keep the morphs seperate and keep as much locality data as possible, so it is available in the future.

Sorry that this is not explained better. Mixing always leads to discussion of Hybrids. Not all people that have mixed enclosures are irresponsible as they would have you believe. And having a mixed enclosure doesn't mean that person is going to unleash hybrids into the gene pool.

A mixed enclosure is NOT something that should be attempted by someone until they have experience with each of the species to be housed together. This will lead to less failure by knowing how to detect issues. You MUST know the normal behaviour of the frogs first.

And if a person does have a mixed enclosure, they MUST be responsible with the offspring in regards to the work of the third group above.

 

[Scott Richardson]

I currently have a trio of Azureus and a group of vents in one of my 40b verts and all are doing well.

My other 40b vert currently has a pair of Giant day geckos in it but soon with have a group of 6 terribilis .

You are an idiot!! Not because of the mixed enclosures. But because of the size of the enclosures. That is irresponsible and just plain stupid.

 

[Scott Richardson]

Why do people see the barrel of the gun, yet step into the clearing anyway, arms waving and screaming, "shoot Meee! Over Here!!"?

Why do you have to shoot everyone that asks the question? I, for one, completely understand and support your(not referring to you specifically Doug) wanting to keep bloodlines pure. And I, for one, would never introduce hybrids into the hobby. If I want to keep three male Terriblis in a 75 gallon enclosure and one is yellow, one is mint, and one is orange (just an example). How does it effect the hobby if proper husbandry methods are used and the frogs are fat, healthy and stress free?

 

[Scott Richardson]

It is purely opinion. Until SOLID EVIDENCE can be shown one way or another, I will continue siding with the "pro-mixers."

You're not invited!!
People like you and Jellyman are the reason there is such a debate on the subject.

 

[Scott Richardson]

As a proponent of mixed enclosures done correctly, I will tell you there is no reason to want to produce hybrids.

With snakes and lizards, you selectively breed for traits of each, and get rainbow colors.

This does not happen with frogs. You would think it would because of the colors. However, most hybrids are quite muted in color. Or just oddly colored.

There is no monetary value in hybrid frogs

 

[Scott Richardson]

well granted i can't say i know much about the demand for hybrid frogs, but i'm sure you could find people who would take them for free... when i wanted to get rid of my fish, i gave them away to local hobbyists from a forum for free because they aren't really worth anything. darts are usually worth more than a lot of fish, but hybrids aren't.

There lies a big problem..... A pet store takes them for free. They are just going to sell them as dart frogs. A guy buys them, looks at pictures on-line. "oh, these are New River Tincs." They breed! Guy joins Dendroboard. Post..New River Tinc froglets for sale. They are actually a hybrid

They just entered the bloodline

 

[Scott Richardson]

EvilLost
Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 68
Thanks: 2
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts

Rescued some frogs, could use some guidance

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey all,

PHOTOS HERE: https://picasaweb.google.com/Mani.Ar...6EpM2siruNqQE#

I rescued a trio of frogs a little while back and they are my first PDFs. I did not get any other info on them....but I have also been following these boards for awhile.

Anyway, long story short: I have been feeding them fruit flies (D.Mela) and springtails for the past few weeks. Their tank was open-screen top (one of the tall exo-terra with the opening door and front vent) so I covered it with plastic wrap (there is still a front vent) and spray it lightly daily. Humidity is ~80-90% and temps ride right around 74-78.

For the past few days I have been feeding exclusively springtails (my D.Mela culture died and I don't have my next batch just yet). Is it ok to feed them springtails exclusively? They are so easy to culture and the frogs are devouring them. Not the fruit flies are hard but the springtails literally take no effort...also, I am not sure how often to feed but I basically have been putting in more springtails about every other day when I see no more in the tank.

Anyway, the frogs have been active, eating, and seemingly healthy (but as I said its my first set of frogs so I don't have much to base it off). [There are 2 orange frogs and 1 green frog (separate tanks). The orange frogs are EXTREMELY active and not very shy at all. The green frog is always, always hiding and I see him at best once a week.


So, few questions:
1) Can you guys ID my frogs? (pics attached) sizewise they are about the size of my thumbnail
-species? locale (if applicable)? SEXES?
2) Today, I saw the larger one trying to mount the smaller one (but the smaller one wasn't having any of that!) I have NOT heard any kind of calling. I watched them for a good while and it was very clear the larger one continuously chased the smaller one around trying to mount it and the smaller one would brush him away.

I'm assuming this means my larger frog is a male. Does this mean my smaller frog is female? Or could I have 2 males? (Ie would the larger male just try to mount a smaller male if noone else is around?) How else could I tell their sexes?

3) Any general husbandry comments appreciated. I'm well familiar with exotics, just new to the frogs.

4) If they are mating, can anyone direct me to a thread/info on what to look out and how to proceed? I have broms in their enclosure but I'm not sure what to look for? And how noticeable would the calling be? Is it possible I simply haven't heard it? (I have many other animals, including birds that sing throughout the day)


Thanks for the advice!


Vespers, the expert you are taking advise from didn't have any experience yesterday. he only know his frogs are orange ones and a green one in SEPERATE TANKS. he doesn't even mix.

 

[Scott Richardson]

Thanks Scott, you saved me a lot of time. Although I am not a fan of mixing I do appreciate and respect the hobbyist that do it responsibly and take offense to people that send the wrong message about mixing.
Well done sir.

Just because some of us do keep mixed enclosures, it doesn't mean that we do not respect the efforts of the "purists" of the hobby. My actions don't impede on those efforts.

I have kept tincs and auratus off and on over the years, and they are still my favorite. One day, I want to build a rack like Marty's and want a pair of each morph of both. In order to do that, I need for all the morphs to still be around.

 

[Scott Richardson]

The statement above is far from correct. I have purchased frogs and supplies from almost every sponsor on this forum and from at least a dozen members. Certainly there may be a select few that might do the above but I have yet to have my money turned down from any business or any member of this forum.

That may be true. However, everyone knows my views. And while I believe it may be alright to keep one type of thumbs and one terrestrial species together in a larger well planned out enclosure; You talk about mixing whatever, and think hybrids are cool.
I don't wish to disrespect the "purists" as I fully support their work. And with the exception of my display tank, I fully agree with them.

So, I may be labelled as a pro-mixer, which is ok but not completely accurate.

But I do not want to be labelled in the same group as you.

 

[Scott Richardson]

the whole point of this thread was me asking about why the dart frog hobby has such a hostile view regarding hybrids etc... when many other hobbies are open to the idea and actively encourage it. i have heard many good reasons for it and against it. that's all. i just wanted to know why out of curiosity. i am not leaning either way and i'm certainly not going to attack others over their views. i just wanted some clarification.

anyway, it's a little sad to say that i will be a "hybridiot" when i don't own any frogs at all and i'm nowhere near ready to own any. i'm just trying to learn so i can give my future frogs proper homes.

You know, you asked a pretty good question out of curiosity. The rest of the herp world does it, why don't we?
I tried to give you the best answer you are going to get. Why? because every other week, someone new wants to set up a mixed tank that will produce hybrids. People are tired of hearing the question. I believe you got some good information, and Ed has pointed you in a good direction.

Any other topic, you will get some helpful info from all.

And, there is a multi species reference page in the general area. read it.

And, a pastel snake looks totally out of place in a planted natural vivarium, where as a green tree python looks beautiful in the same set up just as nature made it.
So, why bother.

 

[Scott Richardson]

What group would that be?

What is laughable is that is ok to feed mutated fruit flies and decorate with hybrid plant species but heaven forbid we have a hybrid frog.

So everything else is fair game? Well as long as the frogs are pure.

That would be an awesome new line. Black back leuc. Put me down for a trio!!!

This group! ( All words straight out of your mouth. )

 

[Scott Richardson]

good point. it would be weird to see that, but on the flip side, white tigers are not natural and don't exist in the wild (or not for long anyway). they have been created for zoos and entertainment and most people don't even realize it.

Oh, you really have some research to do. And you should do it BEFORE making comments.
The White Tigers in the zoo do not exist in the wild, they are a cross between a Siberian Tiger and a Bengel Tiger. Both species carry a white gene.

1 in 10,000 Siberian Tigers ARE white.

 

[Scott Richardson]

good point. it would be weird to see that, but on the flip side, white tigers are not natural and don't exist in the wild (or not for long anyway). they have been created for zoos and entertainment and most people don't even realize it.

No, that is not what you said..... And yes, wikipedia is a quick source to get ammo for the BS cannon.

The more you post, the more it is apparent just how much you need to learn.

Dogs, Cats, Tigers.........Do you have any herpetocultural experience at all? Or do you just have a really big stack of National Geographic magazines, and recently saw an article on Dart Frogs and your search led you here.

This thread isn't even about the original post any more. It is just you arguing with every single post.

And for the record.........Kangaroos in the zoo don't live in the wild either. They live at the zoo.

 

[Scott Richardson]

bengal tigers and amur tigers will never meet in the wild. thus, they are created..

Apparently you have never seen the movie Madagascar! If you had, you would know two things.

Chris Rock plays a good Zebra, and

Zoo animals do go on vacation to the wild.

So, how do you know they will never meet?

 

[Scott Richardson]

I made no mistake, as there have been white tigers in the wild. Which you said there were not. Then even said there were and one was shot in the 1950's. If it was shot it did then exist.

No one on this board keeps tigers in their vivariums. Or dogs, or cats, or snakes. or even poo flinging monkeys.

My point is no one cares about what is going on in the other areas.

You asked a question. You got an answer on the first page or two. Then you brought up lions and tigers. You forgot the bears....oh, my.

 

[Scott Richardson]

It was bound to happen once

 

[Scott Richardson]

Nope! Just relaxing and enjoying the last day of the weekend.

 

[Scott Richardson]

Not at all. In the other post, I just pointed out that every frog in the hobby is the off spring of wild collected frogs.

 

[Scott Richardson]

And I don't really believe asking for facts to back up a statement is taking a negative position.

Let's not hijack the thread, that is what thunderdome is for

 

[Scott Richardson]

seems to me that you have been the one trying to cause conflict. every post you have made here has been a snide comment or attempt to start a flame war. you're first comment in here was an attempt to start something. sorry i offended you by asking a question, but please feel free to not respond to my posts from here on out.

Oh shit!! Now you did it.