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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I was told by someone this would be the best place to ask this question.

I have an aquaponic custom built display, the top is foam sealed with silicone and holds a tray containing media for growing out plants (currently mint since I find it loves the moisture).

The substrate of the tray is a layering of perlite, coco coir, screen mesh, smooth river stones and moss at the very top.

The square feature conceals a 80gph pump inside of an acrylic chamber, lets the water at the bottom circulate but only trickles run down to the media so it remains wet but not soggy and allows enough time for the plants to use the nitrogen before the water drips back down to the fish below.

Everything is flush with the glass so there's no way to get from one side to the other. The dimensions for the platform is 18x18x15

I really love frogs that have a call or look pretty in groups. So I'm really just looking for suggestions.
Right now humidity is 75% during the day and 90% at night. I can easily bump the humidity up if needed so it's not an issue.

Keeping a singular small frog wouldn't be ideal. I either need a big frog with big poops or a bunch of small frogs with small poops.

Any help appreciated.

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Just wanted to start by saying that is an awesome looking way to incorporate an aquatic feature.

I'm no pro at this, so I'll defer to those with the experience, but happened to be lurking and wanted to bring up a few items that could be problematic.

That is a lot of light - what is the temperature range of the vivarium?

Also the substrate itself doesn't sound ideal for dart frogs (or almost any frogs for that matter). Darts need a layer of leaf litter over the substrate, which I imagine you could implement easily, however Perlite, while non toxic does provide a impaction risk if ingested (during feeding). Moss is another potential impaction risk if eaten, and also tends to hold onto moisture too well - it's important the frogs feet have a chance to dry out to avoid health issues.

The constant water movement from the pump also adds an extra element to contend with in regulating the humidity, particularly the substrate, though I'll leave the specifics there to those with the experience.

Additionally mint leaves contain trace oils, hence the aroma and taste, normally not enough to cause animals problems, however amphibians have skin that is very permeable. The trace amounts of mint oil might be a stressor or even outright harmful - Maybe not, but worth doing more digging on. It sounds like these plants could be easily changed out though.

Generally it is better to start with deciding on the animal first and then building the enclosure around their needs rather than vice versa, however I understand in this situation you started with the aquaponic idea. If you're comfortable with a little bit of modification here I think you would be better off with an arboreal frog than dart frogs. Based on the humidity levels probably some type of neotropical tree frogs. This would allow you more flexibility in the substrate, and since they would have access to the height of the enclosure they could better regulate their own temperate and humidity levels by moving. However that recommendation also depends on the temperatures, if the top is considerably warmer due to the light tree frogs might not be an option.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Just wanted to start by saying that is an awesome looking way to incorporate an aquatic feature.

I'm no pro at this, so I'll defer to those with the experience, but happened to be lurking and wanted to bring up a few items that could be problematic.

That is a lot of light - what is the temperature range of the vivarium?

Also the substrate itself doesn't sound ideal for dart frogs (or almost any frogs for that matter). Darts need a layer of leaf litter over the substrate, which I imagine you could implement easily, however Perlite, while non toxic does provide a impaction risk if ingested (during feeding). Moss is another potential impaction risk if eaten, and also tends to hold onto moisture too well - it's important the frogs feet have a chance to dry out to avoid health issues.

The constant water movement from the pump also adds an extra element to contend with in regulating the humidity, particularly the substrate, though I'll leave the specifics there to those with the experience.

Additionally mint leaves contain trace oils, hence the aroma and taste, normally not enough to cause animals problems, however amphibians have skin that is very permeable. The trace amounts of mint oil might be a stressor or even outright harmful - Maybe not, but worth doing more digging on. It sounds like these plants could be easily changed out though.

Generally it is better to start with deciding on the animal first and then building the enclosure around their needs rather than vice versa, however I understand in this situation you started with the aquaponic idea. If you're comfortable with a little bit of modification here I think you would be better off with an arboreal frog than dart frogs. Based on the humidity levels probably some type of neotropical tree frogs. This would allow you more flexibility in the substrate, and since they would have access to the height of the enclosure they could better regulate their own temperate and humidity levels by moving. However that recommendation also depends on the temperatures, if the top is considerably warmer due to the light tree frogs might not be an option.
Thanks it was a kind of sh**y 1 day build but it worked so well I decided to run with it.

So the way the actual tray system setup goes like this: 1/2 inch moss at the top, under is smooth river stones to allow heavy drainage and to keep froggy faces out, under that is coco and at the bottom under a sheet of fine acrylic screen mesh is the perlite, loose. The system is setup to slowly trickle water down through the roots and let the aquarium water aerate inside the chamber. So the media its self is wet but it's not actually soggy, it has a lot of drainage and the coco being in the middle keeps it from staying too wet and drowning the roots.

When I built it, it was intended for an arboreal tree frog. But when I asked about what would be appropriate for this tank we couldn't really decide so it was suggested I come here :)

I know you guys probably mainly deal with dart frogs but maybe some folks know about other frogs too? I hope.

I had wanted to keep Coqui frogs but I have a better chance at getting refined uranium. So now I'm trying to figure out a vocal or pretty frog to fit the bill and give me more nitrogen.

As far as noisy goes the best I hard was that dumpy frogs are loud? That was it.

For pretty frogs I was looking at glass frogs clown frogs and red eye trees. But red eyes may be too large to keep a pair in there and the rest I have no idea if they can be kept in groups
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The LED is a board unit with a heavy duty set of fans. It changes the temperature by a whole 3 degrees XD

The water is heated so the tank stays at 75-80 during lights on, and around 70 at lights off.

The rig is bright but it isn't harmful just mostly red and blue spectrum specifically for terrestrial plants so it looks very very very red in pics. I've had this board for a while and it's been used for a lot of animals. Haven't seen any issues but who knows.
 

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Parsing strategy it does not appear to be frog-centric to any species I can think of.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Parsing strategy it does not appear to be frog-centric to any species I can think of.
I'm going to make some edits shortly
Using the data I've been provided here I'm going to increase vertical space to explore, up the humidity and make sure there aren't any dry spots.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Better?
298524

Added a vine that was growing in another terrarium, added more moss to the substrate and in crevices to hold more moisture and sealed part of the mesh top. Humidity now 99% and temp is 76-80.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
If clowns can be kept together then that's fine. I actually have a clown in another tank. It would probably like this setup better
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
And now I can make it a rain chamber with perfect drainage =)

Pleased that the fogger tube actually fit without resealing. Now it should be much more beterrer.

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I think it's on the small side for any frogs to really be happy. If in your above comment you meant that the entire dimension is 18 x 18 x 15, then that is about 20 gallons, but only half of that volume is available. The smallest I'd consider even for a pair of thumbs would be 20 gallons.
 

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And now I can make it a rain chamber with perfect drainage =)

Pleased that the fogger tube actually fit without resealing. Now it should be much more beterrer.
If you look around the board I think you will find the general opinion is that foggers are not desirable for frog tanks. Frogs thermo regulate through their skin, and if the air is too wet then this is hard to do so. Better to use a mister rather than a fogger
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
If you look around the board I think you will find the general opinion is that foggers are not desirable for frog tanks. Frogs thermo regulate through their skin, and if the air is too wet then this is hard to do so. Better to use a mister rather than a fogger
Interesting. Makes sense to me. Fogger out then. In the next build I think I'll convert something wider and taller and build a misting spray bar I can set on a timer.

A lot to think about. A lot to learn

I'll just hand mist for now.

Thank you
 

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This is an honest and direct question. What is the main thing you are trying to accomplish, and what does success at that look like to you?

The reason for my question - my impression is you're just trying to do too many things in one box. Even with a big box I'd question the approach. This is a small box, which increases the difficulty of at least some of the things you might be trying to accomplish - it diminishes your chances of success.

If you just bull ahead in your endeavors, you will inflict some collateral damage. You understand that, right?
 

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I don't understand how nobody has a problem with keeping that many fish in what basically amounts to a shallow tray of filthy water. OP I'm sorry because I can tell you've put a lot of effort into this tank but you are slowly torturing those fish to death.. Get them out of there now and go back to the drawing board, this tank isn't appropriate for any vertebrate life in its current state and there is literally nothing you can do that would make it appropriate for fish. I'm sorry to be blunt, it's cool that you're experimenting with these concepts but this is a failed experiment and you need to learn what you can and move on before you harm any more animals.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
This is an honest and direct question. What is the main thing you are trying to accomplish, and what does success at that look like to you?

The reason for my question - my impression is you're just trying to do too many things in one box. Even with a big box I'd question the approach. This is a small box, which increases the difficulty of at least some of the things you might be trying to accomplish - it diminishes your chances of success.

If you just bull ahead in your endeavors, you will inflict some collateral damage. You understand that, right?
My original intention was proof of concept that gives me a curiosity to stare at. I wanted to show you can easily make an aquaponic display out of junk and I like frogs so I figured they would be the best choice to complete the nitrogen cycle

I'm pretty good with aquatics, and I know a fair bit about hydroponics. But I can't say amphibian care is a skill I hold..

My end goal is to create a sustainable display for Coqui frogs. I'll get those frogs somehow..
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I don't understand how nobody has a problem with keeping that many fish in what basically amounts to a shallow tray of filthy water. OP I'm sorry because I can tell you've put a lot of effort into this tank but you are slowly torturing those fish to death.. Get them out of there now and go back to the drawing board, this tank isn't appropriate for any vertebrate life in its current state and there is literally nothing you can do that would make it appropriate for fish. I'm sorry to be blunt, it's cool that you're experimenting with these concepts but this is a failed experiment and you need to learn what you can and move on before you harm any more animals.
Sorry but I have a life of professional experience with aquatics. This setup is perfectly fine.

And if it assuages your fears the feeder guppies will get rotated out in to the mouth of some hungry fish and coral when they exceed appropriate size so don't worry.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I don't understand how nobody has a problem with keeping that many fish in what basically amounts to a shallow tray of filthy water. OP I'm sorry because I can tell you've put a lot of effort into this tank but you are slowly torturing those fish to death.. Get them out of there now and go back to the drawing board, this tank isn't appropriate for any vertebrate life in its current state and there is literally nothing you can do that would make it appropriate for fish. I'm sorry to be blunt, it's cool that you're experimenting with these concepts but this is a failed experiment and you need to learn what you can and move on before you harm any more animals.
I don't understand how nobody has a problem with keeping that many fish in what basically amounts to a shallow tray of filthy water. OP I'm sorry because I can tell you've put a lot of effort into this tank but you are slowly torturing those fish to death.. Get them out of there now and go back to the drawing board, this tank isn't appropriate for any vertebrate life in its current state and there is literally nothing you can do that would make it appropriate for fish. I'm sorry to be blunt, it's cool that you're experimenting with these concepts but this is a failed experiment and you need to learn what you can and move on before you harm any more animals.
Oh and mate. Dirty water is cloudy, tanic water inhibits fungal growth and tints the water brown. When your throw a light on it at an angle, like the one that's remarkably obviously there, you can create the illusion of a different color of water, like blue or green or red...
 

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I'm pretty good with aquatics, and I know a fair bit about hydroponics. But I can't say amphibian care is a skill I hold.
unfortunately aquatics care isn't a skill you hold either and it's self evident from this thread that you know very little about hydroponics.

My end goal is to create a sustainable display for Coqui frogs. I'll get those frogs somehow..
I hope not.
This setup is perfectly fine.
No. it's not.


And if it assuages your fears the feeder guppies will get rotated out in to the mouth of some hungry fish and coral when they exceed appropriate size so don't worry.
Unfortunately knowing that you're in possession of other fish and even coral does nothing to assuage my fears. It's somewhat reassuring that the guppies will have short lives and therefore their suffering while in your 'care' will be minimised.
 
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