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Discussion Starter #1
We all (at least i think we all have) have the threads about secies mixing but what about morph mixing? I want to make a 55gal pauludarium and too get some color and variety i was thinking about putting a combinantion of a few different pairs of auratus morphs (Blue and black, G&B, panamanian, hawaian, turqouis and blue, etc.). Its not species mixing but what do u guys think about it. Now im not 100% sure if this would since i dk about the temp requirements for diff. morphs but would diff. morphs interbreed?
I'd like to hear what u guys thoughts n this are?
 

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As far as temps go they will keep just fine w/ the same temp . As far as breeding goes I'd destroy all eggs or keep them and not distribute them ,they will likely interbreed and thus be hybrids .
 

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I agree with Darren. Morph mixing is probably worse than species mixing because there is a higher chance they will hybridize and a lower chance you will be able to tell the hybrids by appearance.
 
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Discussion Starter #4
Don't a few of the auratus morphs throw off different colored frogs any ways? I recal someone saying that their auratus have green/turquoise/blue offspring.


-Tad
 
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Discussion Starter #5
Ya thats what i was thinking. I understand that u would never get like Hawaians breeding with Panamanians but U get Blue/ Turqouis from Green/Torqouis so doesn't that already happen?
 
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Yes it happens, but there from the same morph. I think mixing is wrong, and if you MUST do it then destroy all of the eggs. All i know is i dont want to buy a morph of auratus to find out its a hybrid. I was on Tracy Hicks(?) website the other day and there was a picture of a luec x azureus hybrid (i think those were the species), It made me sick.
 
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Discussion Starter #7
Well, not all frogs in the same population look the same. Some population may not have a huge diversity, but some might. Justin Y. has picture floating around of a group of basti pumilio all from caught on the same tree. I believe it had 5 frogs that looked different enough, that if you didn't have local data they would be separated into different morphs. If you only breed frogs that look the same you are going to breed the natural diversity out of them.

This is why local data would be very nice to have, but we don't a lot of the time. The basti pumilio, doesn't matter if it's red, orange, or yellow could be paired up with each other without creating a hybrid or mixed dart. That is why it is so important to know the history behind the blood line of your darts.

Now most morphs, be it auratus, tincs, or whatever are generally labeled into different locals. So you would not want to breed these, because you are mixing the blood lines.

Now if you want a tank with 5 different tincs, nobody (well almost nobody) will want to tar and feather you as long as you don't raise any eggs. You can keep them together. You have to watch out for behavioral issues also when you are mixing dart species in a tank too. In another thread, there is a tank that has live 4-5 different species all from the tinc group: see link for groups (Dart Groups). Frogs in the same group can cross and create hybrid offspring, so all eggs need to be tossed from tanks that have frogs mixed from with in the same group. I have seen pictures of frogs that have been crossed and it is very hard if the froglets are pure or not. Example Tinc (morph A) keep in tank with Tinc (morph B) produce offspring that look like morph A, morph B, and morph C (mixed). That is why people are so concerned about people keeping a mixed tank. Toss the eggs, and if you get to the point you want to breed them, pull a same morph pair and give them a new tank by themselves.


These are my feelings and not the view of DendroBoard. This is a touchy issue and just want to make it clear this is how I feel, and how I believe many froggers feel.

Hope this helps,
 
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Discussion Starter #8
I totally understand and im not saying by any means that i agree with creating hybrids I was just wondering what people's though were on this subject. Out of curiosity who does this "rule" hold true for the really small spotted luecs. They are specially breed righ?Do they count as hybridss or just selective blood lines?
 

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furizzl said:
I totally understand and im not saying by any means that i agree with creating hybrids I was just wondering what people's though were on this subject. Out of curiosity who does this "rule" hold true for the really small spotted luecs. They are specially breed righ?Do they count as hybridss or just selective blood lines?
Selectively bred lines are not hybrids but I wouldn't call the "just" selective blood lines either. Selective breeding is the process of purposefully removing genetic diversity by breeding only those animals that have the characteristics you want. That works against the goal of maintaining frogs like we find them in the wild just as much as hybridizing.
 
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Discussion Starter #10
Furizzl,

I honestly don't know much about the differnt lines of luecs in the hobby. I have never heard of people "selective breeding" for a fine spot luec, but I know people are doing it with azureus. If I have a doubt about creating a hybrid, or selective breeding (sb) I would error on the side of SB.

I would ask some of people who have been in the hobby for a very long time, what they know about the blood lines of the frog species.
 

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I keep a mixed morph group of auratus. No issues. They breed, but are unsucseful on thier own and I destroy all eggs.

As for hybrids, those exsist as the result of crosses at or above the species level. Not between morphs. As for crossing morphs, for the sake of the hobby lets not (but hey thats just my opinion).

Jay
 

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jhupp said:
As for hybrids, those exsist as the result of crosses at or above the species level. Not between morphs. As for crossing morphs, for the sake of the hobby lets not (but hey thats just my opinion).

Jay
That's not quite true. A "hybrid" is simply a mixed cross of some kind. A "species hybrid" is exactly that, a cross between two species and a transgeneric hybrid is a cross between two genera (unheard of in darts as far as I know). However, cross between two morphs or wild populations is still a bonafide hybrid and undesireable by many of us in the hobby.
 
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Discussion Starter #13
I keep a mixed morph group of auratus. No issues. They breed, but are unsucseful on thier own and I destroy all eggs.
Thats good to know because even if they layed i really am not into raising them right now and if they wont raise them on their own then i wont feel so bad about getting rid of the eggs.
 
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