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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After talking with my veterinarian, she seems to feel that a vivarium that most people can afford would not be the kind of environment one should keep dart frogs in. She said they are basically dirty and should be cleaned out at least once a month. Now I've read a fair amount before setting up a viverium and I ordered one off of Josh's frogs as the full kit. I've seeded the viv with both springtails and the white dwarf isopods. Did I do a bad things? My vet recommends wet paper towel, and some moss with a place to hide and that's it. She said the complicated viv is a bad way to keep frogs. I need input since right now she is the only source I've heard this from (but she is a Vet...). The places I have seen viv's recommended are youtube, Josh's Frogs, the breeder I got my frogs from, and Reptiles magazine...

P.S. for anyone who's read my post about my sick Azures....I have new frogs now so those are the ones in question, and they are plump looking little leucs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I should also mention from what I read the viv's don't need to be cleaned out nearly as often as she states, which is one of the major reasons for using them....but one of the sources I read said that it doesn't really need to be cleaned out that much....but if not once a month...how often? I have 4 leucs
 

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If I understand correctly, your vet has given you infos that conflict with what you have read here on the forum or you've been told by those who raise frogs.
But "vet=frog expert" is not always a correct equation, in my opinion.
I can tell you that few vets are experts in frogs.
Here on the forum you can find all the useful tips, everything you need for the proper management of vivs and frogs, as well as the indications for vets experts in frogs, which can give you the right advice.
About what you ask, I'll say no, I clean only the glasses of my vivs, replace the leaf litter, trim the plants... and little else.
Microfauna does the cleaning of the viv, so you have done well to put in your viv isos and springtails.
 

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That is the exact reason you have isopods and springtails. They do your cleaning, constantly. To keep a frog that is most secure among foliage and leaf litter on only paper towels and 1 hide box would be an atrocity. I'm not saying your vet is lying but, she seems misinformed as to the extent many go through to mimic nature for our captives. That being said, and for the purpose of evaluating, treating, and observing for signs of distress, your vet describes the accepted protocol. We also call this quarantine. Once we know we have healthy animals, and once we have a healthy and established environment, we allow them natural like conditions.

EDIT: +1 rigel10
 

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For dart frogs keep them with a drainage layer, substrate barrier, soil, moss unless you use abg mix and leaf litter, Add live plants and a coco hut as a hide. the coco hut and leaf litter will both be used as hides along with some plants. Add springtails and isopods in the tank. All of these things together make it a living eco system. You wont have to do any big cleaning unless your soil gets saturated with water. Your leaf litter will break down and when that happens just put more in. You need to have soil and plants for the frogs so the paper towel method your vet said will not work
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I did use a drainage layer, I have a substrate barrier, then ABG mix, sphagnum moss, leaf litter, and plants. I will admit initially I forgot to place the barrier down so I dropped the ABG right over the drainage layer. I scooped what I could onto the barrier but there was still some ABG finer parts on top of the drainage layer....will this cause a problem?
 

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I did use a drainage layer, I have a substrate barrier, then ABG mix, sphagnum moss, leaf litter, and plants. I will admit initially I forgot to place the barrier down so I dropped the ABG right over the drainage layer. I scooped what I could onto the barrier but there was still some ABG finer parts on top of the drainage layer....will this cause a problem?
I would suspect it wouldn't be a problem. A question, though. Are you currently treating this animal for illness/injury, or did you just acquire it?
 

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Have you given them a quarantine period in the conditions your vet described? Is it possible that she meant for her description to be used for initial observation? There are several threads here discussing the regret people have after letting their new frogs go in their fresh environment, only to realize a frog was sick, and consequently the entire setup needed to be destroyed/sanitized, and rebuilt. Some illnesses have an incubation period that requires a few months to become pathogenic. That would be the only reason I can think of to follow your vet's advice on housing, and only then, for temporary observation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Have you given them a quarantine period in the conditions your vet described? Is it possible that she meant for her description to be used for initial observation? There are several threads here discussing the regret people have after letting their new frogs go in their fresh environment, only to realize a frog was sick, and consequently the entire setup needed to be destroyed/sanitized, and rebuilt. Some illnesses have an incubation period that requires a few months to become pathogenic. That would be the only reason I can think of to follow your vet's advice on housing, and only then, for temporary observation.
No she meant as permanent husbandry, she was very clear on it. She wanted to dissuade me from using a viv type setting. She said the only way it really works is if you have a drainage filter set up under neath it all so the water will always drip out.
 

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No she meant as permanent husbandry, she was very clear on it. She wanted to dissuade me from using a viv type setting. She said the only way it really works is if you have a drainage filter set up under neath it all so the water will always drip out.
I do agree that you should not keep stagnant water in the drainage layer. Something as simple as a hollow tube from a ballpoint pen attached to some airline tubing works for me for periodic syphons. Others go as far as drilling drainage holes in the glass. With a proper barrier, and as long as your substrate doesn't get saturated, a small amount of water will be used, and cleaned, by plant roots once established.
 
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That Vet is Crazy!!! Having a NATURALISTIC environment is the best way to decrease stress, gives them proper humidity and hide stops, and nutritional isos/springtails to eat. This forum is the best way for you to get factual information for keeping and successful breeding of dart frogs. These are people who have had frogs for years. Experience cannot be learned in books.
 
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