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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just picked up a group of 1.4 mints (still looking for other males). What's the recommended viv size? I have them in separate vivs for now but would like to combine them.
 

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being larger species, they should have at least 5-10 gallons per frog.
 

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At least 10 gallons per frog but I suggest more because they are bigger. A 50+ gallon tank would be a great size for a group of 5.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks. I've moved them into my 70 gallon viv, which I'd thought might be a bit too big, but they seem to love it. And it'll be perfect if I can ever find another male.
 

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I would agree, the more floor space the better and I have even noticed some of my terribillis utilizing height, a 75 gallon is ideal for a group, great size and they will love it, maybe just in my experience but I feel that terribillis are a species that do favor an area at times whether it be a feeding spot or coco hut or something a male calls on but they do a really good job utilizing their entire area, I have 5 Oranges in a custom built 2 foot by 3 foot on floor space and they love it, great thing about them heavily planted or not they are out in the open all the time!
 

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Bred 100's of terribilis from a 1.2 group in a ten gallon aquarium.
 

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Bred 100's of terribilis from a 1.2 group in a ten gallon aquarium.
Just because you can doesn't mean you should..

I wouldn't keep "one" adult in a 10 gallon considering they can easily jump the length of the tank and smash into the glass.

I have a group of 5 in a 150 gallon and they use the entire viv, I say the more space the better.
 

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I agree with Tuck, bigger the better with these guys.
"I" would go 50 gallons + with the group you have. I have seen mine jump from one end of a 40 breeder and smash his face on the other end. I have 8 in two different temporary vivs while i build their new viv, all 450 gallons of it... should have the stand from the woodworker next weekend, then the build will begin.


Casper

Just because you can doesn't mean you should..

I wouldn't keep "one" adult in a 10 gallon considering they can easily jump the length of the tank and smash into the glass.

I have a group of 5 in a 150 gallon and they use the entire viv, I say the more space the better.
 

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Soon as i get the stand i will start one. The woodworker is going all out with carvings and inlaid wood, all dart frogs and a skull or two... I gave him artistic freedom, gave him links to the morph guides and told him to run with it.


Casper



OOOOOHHH!! 450 gallon custom build....where is the pre-subscription button? I for one will be looking forward to some pics!
 

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Casper,

Is this going in your frog room or on display in your living area?

BTW the bigger the better with any frog IMO.
 

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Just because you can doesn't mean you should..

I wouldn't keep "one" adult in a 10 gallon considering they can easily jump the length of the tank and smash into the glass.

I have a group of 5 in a 150 gallon and they use the entire viv, I say the more space the better.
Well that's your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it. :) People tend to anthropomorphise the animals that they care for. It's only human nature. The fact is that a frogs brain simply does not work the way your brain does or even your dog's. People tend to throw around "how would you like to live in a small room your whole life". That argument is completely invalid as their little froggy brains simply don't work the way ours do. Those frogs, and many more like them, did not exhibit stress, were healthier than wild frogs, and reproduced consistently. I would like to see some proof that your five terribilis in your 150 gallon enclosure are healthier or "happier" than the three I referenced. Many 100's of those terribilis actually went to several large and well-respected commercial dart breeders. If you choose to keep them in different sized enclosures that's great and totally your perogative but there is nothing for you to back up saying that they "should" not be kept differently. I wonder how many terribilis you have bred over the years. Remember and organisms only purpose, for want of a better word, is to reproduce and make as many copies of its genes as possible. Just some food for thought :) No offense meant, I just see this argument a lot and there's not much to back it up other than feelings.
 
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To breed, or to enjoy how they interact when given space is how i view it.

Don't forget, breeding dose not mean healthy frog. Not implying anything, but using breeding as a health determination or if they are "happy" is flawed.


Casper


Well that's your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it. :) People tend to anthropomorphise the animals that they care for. It's only human nature. The fact is that a frogs brain simply does not work the way your brain does or even your dog's. People tend to throw around "how would you like to live in a small room your whole life". That argument is completely invalid as their little froggy brains simply don't work the way ours do. Those frogs, and many more like them, did not exhibit stress, were healthier than wild frogs, and reproduced consistently. I would like to see some proof that your five terribilis in your 150 gallon enclosure are healthier or "happier" than the three I referenced. Many 100's of those terribilis actually went to several large and well-respected commercial dart breeders. If you choose to keep them in different sized enclosures that's great and totally your perogative but there is nothing for you to back up saying that they "should" not be kept differently. I wonder how many terribilis you have bred over the years. Remember and organisms only purpose, for want of a better word, is to reproduce and make as many copies of its genes as possible. Just some food for thought :) No offense meant, I just see this argument a lot and there's not much to back it up other than feelings.
 

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To breed, or to enjoy how they interact when given space is how i view it.

Don't forget, breeding dose not mean healthy frog. Not implying anything, but using breeding as a health determination or if they are "happy" is flawed.


Casper
That's just the thing, I'm not implying that they can even be happy. There's nothing wrong with keeping them in big enclosures at all. But there is equally nothing wrong with keeping them in smaller as long as they exhibit signs of being healthy and performing their biological needs. Having an opinion is one thing, using that opinion to tell people what they should do is another. I'm glad we can have a civilized discussion :) So many people can't when talking about different viewpoints.
 

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Small works, big works. Darts needs can be satisfied fairly easy. But the argument(s) that if it breeds in the small tank, then that's all they need is also just an opinion.
Stress can lead to breeding, look at the clutches frogs lay during shipping, one could argue that the shipping container is big enough because they laid a clutch.

But there is a fact you can't ignore, if given the space, you will see behavior(s) that will not happen in a ten gallon with 3+ large frogs

So all that being said, i will always say bigger is better, not go with the bare minimum just to meet their needs.

Casper

That's just the thing, I'm not implying that they can even be happy. There's nothing wrong with keeping them in big enclosures at all. But there is equally nothing wrong with keeping them in smaller as long as they exhibit signs of being healthy and performing their biological needs. Having an opinion is one thing, using that opinion to tell people what they should do is another. I'm glad we can have a civilized discussion :) So many people can't when talking about different viewpoints.
 

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Small works, big works. Darts needs can be satisfied fairly easy. But the argument(s) that if it breeds in the small tank, then that's all they need is also just an opinion.
Stress can lead to breeding, look at the clutches frogs lay during shipping, one could argue that the shipping container is big enough because they laid a clutch.

But there is a fact you can't ignore, if given the space, you will see behavior(s) that will not happen in a ten gallon with 3+ large frogs

So all that being said, i will always say bigger is better, not go with the bare minimum just to meet their needs.

Casper
That is a poor example for this argument as it is actually not breeding. I am not talking about frogs laying a clutch of eggs due to stress in a shipping container. I am talking about a 1.2 group of frogs that went through mating behavior and produced hundreds of fertile and healthy eggs over a course of years. They are in fact still alive and are over a decade old. They still breed although not as regularly as they did in their younger years.

Your second statement is also an opinion and false to boot. The same basic behaviors were exhibited in the ten gallon enclosure as were displayed in our 200+ gallon display.

You are right about one thing, the needs of dendrobatids can be fulfilled easily and in a number of ways. Just because you choose to do it differently than me doesn't mean that it is better or preferable. For you it is, because of your own personal feelings, not through any facts. And their is nothing wrong with that! It's just not OK for you to say that you're feelings and opinions are more valid than mine, especially when I have provided very solid anecdotal evidence gathered from years of personal and professional experience.
 

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Not saying mine is better, i just won't use breeding as a yard stick.

What I'm sayings is, yours is just an opinion also.

And like i said, i will always recommend bigger is better. And recommendations were asked for, so i gave mine. And i never said you were wrong.

What do you recommend for 5 mints? That's what the OP asked...

Casper
 

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Not saying mine is better, i just won't use breeding as a yard stick.

What I'm sayings is, yours is just an opinion also.

And like i said, i will always recommend bigger is better. And recommendations were asked for, so i gave mine. And i never said you were wrong.

What do you recommend for 5 mints? That's what the OP asked...

Casper
Ok, I hear you. But your first reply to me you definitely implied that what I did should not be done. "Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should..." That is a pretty clear implication. Now that you've changed your implication I will drop that argument.

Sorry, but you're wrong about what I've said being an opinion. In point of fact, I never presented an opinion. I never once said "this is what I think will work." I presented one example of a group of terribilis living in a certain size enclosure. My exact quote was "Bred 100's of terribilis from a 1.2 group in a ten gallon aquarium." That is a statement of fact that I presented to the opening poster for him or her to draw their own conclusions. That is how people learn, by gathering information and forming their own opinions, not from someone else telling them "this is the way it is".

Also, another thing that people say on here that bugs me is bigger is not always better, especially when it comes to breeding and raising froglets. If your purpose is breeding, then a smaller enclosure actually works better than larger. Also, would you raise a froglet in a 500 gallon enclosure? You could but it would be MUCH more difficult and more dangerous for the frog.
 

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You have me confused with Tuck....

And again, what size for 5 mints?


Ok, I hear you. But your first reply to me you definitely implied that what I did should not be done. "Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should..." That is a pretty clear implication. Now that you've changed your implication I will drop that argument.

Sorry, but you're wrong about what I've said being an opinion. In point of fact, I never presented an opinion. I never once said "this is what I think will work." I presented one example of a group of terribilis living in a certain size enclosure. My exact quote was "Bred 100's of terribilis from a 1.2 group in a ten gallon aquarium." That is a statement of fact that I presented to the opening poster for him or her to draw their own conclusions. That is how people learn, by gathering information and forming their own opinions, not from someone else telling them "this is the way it is".

Also, another thing that people say on here that bugs me is bigger is not always better, especially when it comes to breeding and raising froglets. If your purpose is breeding, then a smaller enclosure actually works better than larger. Also, would you raise a froglet in a 500 gallon enclosure? You could but it would be MUCH more difficult and more dangerous for the frog.
Just because you can doesn't mean you should..

I wouldn't keep "one" adult in a 10 gallon considering they can easily jump the length of the tank and smash into the glass.

I have a group of 5 in a 150 gallon and they use the entire viv, I say the more space the better.
 
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