[tommo]

sorry for bad spelling

im building a 10,6,3foot palidurium
i all ready have some beginer to more challinging reptiles
beardy and crested gecko to golden tegu and croky skinks
i have slight experiance with amphibs i have 2 baby green tree frogs
and 2 fish tanks so expericance isent a problem also a giant african millipede
i was thinking maby
3 house geckos
3 long tailed grass lizerds
2 green tree frogs (the ons i have now)
2 giant african millipedes
1 stink pot turtle
6 oto catfish (great CUC)
6 FEMALE bettas
and 2 electric blue rams
some bromileads moss and small trees
hows that for stocking i dont think im full so open for more suggestions

 

[MrMonterrubio]

Well, well, well...


Your tank seems rather ambitious.


I guess you'll need at least a 300 gal tank to house so many animals on a healthy viv, without fights over space and food.

I'll recomend not so many animals.

 

[parkanz2]

Well, well, well...


Your tank seems rather ambitious.


I guess you'll need at least a 300 gal tank to house so many animals on a healthy viv, without fights over space and food.

I'll recomend not so many animals.

Just to let you know... the dimensions he listed would result in a 1,346 gallon viv.

 

[dendrothusiast]

the choice of animals to house together....I would steer far away from those

 

[parkanz2]

How about we not turn this into a "you shouldn't mix" thread and help him do it correctly? If there ever was a tank large enough to house numerous species, this guy is planning on building it.

So, unless you see a problem with the specific species he listed, or have constructive criticism which will help him accomplish his goal, how about we not be so negative?

 

[EvilLost]

I have to agree with parkanz.


Although mixing is a very advanced topic, his tank dimensions are huge and the animals he listed are "relatively" compatible....

 

[mantisdragon91]

the choice of animals to house together....I would steer far away from those

Based on what factors? Out of curiousity how many of the animals that he has listed have you actually kept and are familiar with their behavior? I can tell you from personal experience that the most aggresive animals in this tank would be the Rams and the Stinkpot and they are particularly agressive at all, especially not in atank of that size.

 

[mcaiger53]

"MIXING IS BAD"
This viv/palu will be almost 1,400 gallons, and I believe a relatively small list of inhabitants. And all these species are pretty hardy, I would say relatively "reasonable" choices. If you don't have the experience, you shouldn't regurgitate what other people say as fact.
Mike

 

[skanderson]

i would love to see this coming together. i avoid all turtles becuase im a plant geek at heart and turtles seem to crush things i like. at least the stink pots stay small. my viv is very similar in size to what you are proposing my quick 2 cents would be that if the viv is 10 long and 6 wide and 3 feet deep you will have a really hard time getting to the back of the viv to do any maintenence. if 3 wide and 6 deep lighting may need to be intense depending on what you plan on stocking for plants. the number of animals seems if anything to be on the light side to me. please keep us informed on how the build developes.

 

[Roadkillstewie]

Might be better served, to focus on the design build @ first...and focus on livestock when it's closer to completion

 

[tommo]

i know mixing is not reccomended but i have sucsesfully mixed a Giant african millipede and a crested gecko
on the person who said to many animals
this is what i think would be good
3 house geckos 60 gallons
3 long tailed lizerds 60 gallons
2 green tree frogs 40 gallons
2 giant african millipedes 20 gallons
1 stink pot musk turtle 60 gallons
6 otos (discontinued)
6 FEMALE bettas 60 gallons
2 german blue rams 40 gallons
id like to give all the inhabitants double the reccomended amount of space to get away from each other
lighting some of you forsee a problem with this
top of cage: a uv strip light and a 40 watt basking bulb
half way down: 75 watt bulb (protected by guard)
on the beach for the turtle: 60 (protected by a guard

so thats around 340 gallons so i think its pretty safe unless any of you can can come up with a better plan i would love to hear it

 

[parkanz2]

Might be better served, to focus on the design build @ first...and focus on livestock when it's closer to completion

I disagree. I think it's best to build a habitat with the requirements of the animals in mind throughout the design and construction process so that you are sure the habitat meets the needs of the animals.

 

[Ed]

i know mixing is not reccomended but i have sucsesfully mixed a Giant african millipede and a crested gecko
on the person who said to many animals
this is what i think would be good
3 house geckos 60 gallons
3 long tailed lizerds 60 gallons
2 green tree frogs 40 gallons
2 giant african millipedes 20 gallons
1 stink pot musk turtle 60 gallons
6 otos (discontinued)
6 FEMALE bettas 60 gallons
2 german blue rams 40 gallons
id like to give all the inhabitants double the reccomended amount of space to get away from each other
lighting some of you forsee a problem with this
top of cage: a uv strip light and a 40 watt basking bulb
half way down: 75 watt bulb (protected by guard)
on the beach for the turtle: 60 (protected by a guard

so thats around 340 gallons so i think its pretty safe unless any of you can can come up with a better plan i would love to hear it

As with many other things, space does not equate good habitat for the animals involved. Regardless of whether you are pro or anti mixing any argument (for or against) based on size is ridiculous since volume does not mean that any portion of the tank is suitable for one much less any of a certain animal.

As a second point, and one that has been discussed repeatedly is the risk of pathogens that can result from mixing animals from seperate areas.. The risk isn't just to the animals in the enclosure but the animals found in the wild since discarded water, materials or escaped feeder insects all pose a risk to the outside enviroment. We can see some of the huge impact that this has already created wild animals including mycoplasma infections in Gopherus ssp and box turtles, chytridmycosis (there are other examples, I'm sad to say). The risk of novel pathogens is also a significant threat to some of the freedom of the hobby since there is a petition before fish and wildlife to ban the importation and interstate transport of amphibians unless they can be certified chytrid free....

Whether or not the animals would or wouldn't try and kill each other should be at best a secondary or tertiary consideration to those listed above.

I would not recommend housing those animals together for the reasons I have listed above.

Institutions are typically very careful about mixing aquatic turtles and terrestrial species together in the same enclosure due to the risk provided by amoeba infections of non-chelonians.

Ed

 

[jacobi]

As with many other things, space does not equate good habitat for the animals involved. Regardless of whether you are pro or anti mixing any argument (for or against) based on size is ridiculous since volume does not mean that any portion of the tank is suitable for one much less any of a certain animal.

As a second point, and one that has been discussed repeatedly is the risk of pathogens that can result from mixing animals from seperate areas.. The risk isn't just to the animals in the enclosure but the animals found in the wild since discarded water, materials or escaped feeder insects all pose a risk to the outside enviroment. We can see some of the huge impact that this has already created wild animals including mycoplasma infections in Gopherus ssp and box turtles, chytridmycosis (there are other examples, I'm sad to say). The risk of novel pathogens is also a significant threat to some of the freedom of the hobby since there is a petition before fish and wildlife to ban the importation and interstate transport of amphibians unless they can be certified chytrid free....

Whether or not the animals would or wouldn't try and kill each other should be at best a secondary or tertiary consideration to those listed above.

I would not recommend housing those animals together for the reasons I have listed above.

Institutions are typically very careful about mixing aquatic turtles and terrestrial species together in the same enclosure due to the risk provided by amoeba infections of non-chelonians.

Ed

Its like people just don't get it. Someone could write a dissertation, give it five steps, similar to the Kubler-Ross model, instead of Denial Anger Bargaining Depression Acceptance it would be
1)Look at my tank its cool
2)How dare you criticise my tank
3)I watched videos on youtube I know everything!
4)My animals all died please help me
5)Why isnt anyone helping me?

This rant wasn't aimed at the OP. I just finished reading several mixed species posts...

 

[jacobi]

i know mixing is not reccomended but i have sucsesfully mixed a Giant african millipede and a crested gecko
on the person who said to many animals
this is what i think would be good
3 house geckos 60 gallons
3 long tailed lizerds 60 gallons
2 green tree frogs 40 gallons
2 giant african millipedes 20 gallons
1 stink pot musk turtle 60 gallons
6 otos (discontinued)
6 FEMALE bettas 60 gallons
2 german blue rams 40 gallons
id like to give all the inhabitants double the reccomended amount of space to get away from each other
lighting some of you forsee a problem with this
top of cage: a uv strip light and a 40 watt basking bulb
half way down: 75 watt bulb (protected by guard)
on the beach for the turtle: 60 (protected by a guard

so thats around 340 gallons so i think its pretty safe unless any of you can can come up with a better plan i would love to hear it

Tommo, its not about the space or size of your tank. As Ed posted above there are many different issues, some of which can be a bit daunting to the beginner so you may just skip all the scientific words. Dont. They are issues which could lead to the death of your animals, if not contamination of wherever you dispose of the bodies. Use the search function, or type your search phrase into google and type "dendroboard" after your search phrase, and read ALL the threads that deal with the topic of multi species exhibits. There are many of them, and many extremely helpful posts by people with years of experience and expertise on the subject, and who break down the topics so they are easily understood by people who do not have much knowledge on the matter. Then decide exactly what it is you are trying to achieve and accomplish by making the vivarium in question, and start fresh plans, taking into account all that you have learned.

 

[Dizzle21]

Here is a good read for the OP. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/43615-large-vivarium-construction.html
Im not agreeing or disagreeing with mixing, but here is some first hand experience creating a large habitat with the success and struggles that come with it.

 

[dendrothusiast]

The animals listed above despite the volume of space will eventually run into eachother. A basic I've always followed from great vivarium builders is ALWAYS expect the "what if" to happen. I never said that all of the species you mentioned won't work together - some will. I won't get into detail regarding pathogens but regarding to some of my experiences. I've had and keep all the species you have listed except the millipedes. Space was never an issue as always they get the biggest homes I can build them. I keep all animals seperate now due to reasons that will take far too long to explain in a single post and would rather make a seperate thread for or discuss in a pm.

Based on what factors? Out of curiousity how many of the animals that he has listed have you actually kept and are familiar with their behavior? I can tell you from personal experience that the most aggresive animals in this tank would be the Rams and the Stinkpot and they are particularly agressive at all, especially not in atank of that size.

mantis I'm not going to derail this thread anymore after this post regarding species that can and can't be kept together. I have my fair share of mixed species keeping experience as I'm sure you do.. or at least hope you do. pm me or make a seperate thread please.

To the op I'm curious how this build is going to turn out - looking foward to the construction phase.

 

[Noort]

Just to house the fish in a way they won't be permanently piled on top of each other you would need a tank that is at least roughly 3 feet long, 2 feet wide and at least 1 foot deep with lots a plants...

(I've kept 3 female bettas in a completely overgrown tank only slightly smaller than that and they would still try to fight each other / even afer a certain hierarchy was established / so good luck with 6 of them!
If I tried that number I would use a 6 foot long tank.)

Not sure what the turtle would like, but since they always make a huge mess add a lot of extra gallons of water in the equasion AND an very good filter (which will produce a current the betta's really won't appreciate).

The rams are gorgeous fish but not a very strong type, so they will suffer from imbalances in the water / and if they thrive will make the other fish miserable when the breeding season starts.

The Otocinclus will be fine, I think. They've proven very hard to kill (which like goldfish is *not* the same as prosper). No, they won't eat all your algae -> that is a myth!

 

[Ed]

The animals listed above despite the volume of space will eventually run into eachother.

Again, regardless of whether or not you are for or against a multispecies enclosure, running into one another is generally not an issue unless one or more of the following occurs
1) they are similar enough to trigger territorial behaviors...

2) the density of animals is so high that the animals are literally always running into one another (and by this I mean continually crawling on top of one another). This can be an issue even with a low density of animals in a large enclosure if the enclosure is poorly designed reducing the appropriate space for the animals to meet thier needs....

3) the encounter triggers a predatory response by one of the animals.

Encountering one another is often thrown out there are an issue without critically evaluating it. Encounters are not automatically negative despite the dogma that prevelent in the hobby about it.

Ed