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OK someone requested to see this particular pair so here they are -
these pics don't really do them justice, especially because of my digital camera that refuses to focus on any frog but also color-wise, so here are some observations:
bright blue on the hands, feet, legs, around the waist area, blending up the back, a little on the belly
peach on the legs
bright-ish green on the back
a little yellow on the belly
a little orange on the belly
orange/brownish spots/pattern on the back and legs

male:





female:





pair:

"turn out the lights please!" so you can see a little of the belly, male on the left female on the right:



he was looking at her and calling in this pic (but you can't see the throat sac cuz the pic was from above), she was busy with springtails:

 

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Yeah that was a part i liked about them because isla colons are another one i like a lot, looking at them for a while in person though doesn't look that much like them. They're not CB though and those areas aren't contiguous just for argument's sake
 

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Here are a few shots of site specific Uyama River pumilio. The belly shot (specifically) hints that these are from a different local than the pair above.


Female











And a male with belly shot.



Rich
 

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Thanks Rich, yeah I sent you an email a while back to the address on your website asking your opinion but I guess it got sent to your junk mail. Would you think these are just from a different part of the river or a totally undiscovered morph? They have the characteristics I've only seen on Uyamas so far, like the combo of peach reticulations on the legs along with the bright bluish green on the backs. I just want to be sure on whether they would be OK to mix with other Uyamas since I never saw anyone with the same type of Uyama as each other, each source seems to be different
 

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Hi Chris,
Yeh, must have got lost. I answer pretty much every email I get, sooner than later. Comcast bites it hard.
It's hard to say what makes people label pums exactly what they are all labeled. I know some Salt Creek Bastis were being labled "solarte" solely because they could fetch a better buck than the already established bastis at the time. Uyama River pumilio are one of the rarest morphs in the hobby. That may be a reason. If all the "uyamas" coming in look a bit different (and I have never seen ones in the hobby that look like mine) once again it becomes a guessing game. Without pics taken in nature (excepting Dr Urquhart's and Dr Summer's photos, which look exactly like mine) I have only one yardstick to judge what an Uyama River pumilio looks like.

Rich



Thanks Rich, yeah I sent you an email a while back to the address on your website asking your opinion but I guess it got sent to your junk mail. Would you think these are just from a different part of the river or a totally undiscovered morph? They have the characteristics I've only seen on Uyamas so far, like the combo of peach reticulations on the legs along with the bright bluish green on the backs. I just want to be sure on whether they would be OK to mix with other Uyamas since I never saw anyone with the same type of Uyama as each other, each source seems to be different
 

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Thanks again Rich, I'll definitely keep them or their offspring separate from any site specific Uyamas then (which shouldn't be too hard lol), I saw JP mention he would be studying them down there so hopefully he can get pics/data from different sections/areas
 

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Hey Chris,
If you can take a few more shots (very hard at times in-viv, I know...) I will pass along the pics to those who inquire about uyamas. I do get a few emails asking about them. Maybe I can find you a match , not in your collection. It would be good to get some "full" belly shots. The belly is really just as important, if not more so, than dorsal shots .

Rich
 

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Thanks again Rich, I'll definitely keep them or their offspring separate from any site specific Uyamas then (which shouldn't be too hard lol), I saw JP mention he would be studying them down there so hopefully he can get pics/data from different sections/areas
I'm basing my opinions off of what I've seen from Dr. Urquhart's, Dr. Summer's, and Rich's Uyama pumilio, but when I saw your pics, I was surprised that they were Uyamas because they had the opposite pattern of Uyamas that I knew of (black background with light spots whereas yours have a light background with dark spots). If I had to guess, I would say that they were odd Bastis, but then again, they don't quite fit that description either. They're certainly odd!

My hope/plan is to basically go from Almirante to Chiriqui Grande and catalog frogs along the way. I definitely want to go to Uyama and Robalo as well as a few of the other riverine morphs and take tons of pictures. It's tiring to see the same 3 or 4 pictures used over and over as the pictures for those morphs (with how variable these frogs are through the rest of their range, I would expect the same from these). I'd like to document the variability of morphs especially (yours, for example, might be from the fringe of the population whereas the rest are from around the river). We'll see. Hopefully I'll get a number of the grants I'm applying to which will help aid that.

Otherwise, I'm taking donations, lol!
 

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Hey Chris,
If you can take a few more shots (very hard at times in-viv, I know...) I will pass along the pics to those who inquire about uyamas. I do get a few emails asking about them. Maybe I can find you a match , not in your collection. It would be good to get some "full" belly shots. The belly is really just as important, if not more so, than dorsal shots .

Rich
Yeah definitely, just need to catch them at the right time - the male will usually make his rounds around the glass calling before the lights go on but never at exactly the same times, otherwise it's hit or miss getting a belly shot with them and thanks again -

I'm basing my opinions off of what I've seen from Dr. Urquhart's, Dr. Summer's, and Rich's Uyama pumilio, but when I saw your pics, I was surprised that they were Uyamas because they had the opposite pattern of Uyamas that I knew of (black background with light spots whereas yours have a light background with dark spots). If I had to guess, I would say that they were odd Bastis, but then again, they don't quite fit that description either. They're certainly odd!
I know, the reason I still think they're some type of Uyama or from really close is the combination of the peach on the legs with bright blue-green on the backs, basically the same colors on the same parts of the bodies as other Uyamas but just reticulated differently. I didn't see that type of color combination on those body parts in any other morph - one that looks a little more like the reticulations on mine is the last pic on this page: www.gifkikkers.be/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=4001
 

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Interesting indeed. And it's certainly possible. We just don't know enough at all about that morph (or most of the riverine morphs, for that matter). I wish they showed the belly on that one. As I understand it, they have that belly that is rather variable like what Rich showed. Makes me all the more eager to get down there and document them a bit more, lol.
 

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... one that looks a little more like the reticulations on mine is the last pic on this page: www.gifkikkers.be/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=4001
One thing we have to remember when it comes to IDing pums (or any dart) is that the lighting used (or available during the shot) has a lot to do with what the pics' coloration looks like. I can take one of my Uyams Rivers and under tha right lighting conditions get them to look like they have a blue body much as that last Uyama River has. The iridescence tend to make different sheens and highlights , even what seems to be an almost predominant body color stand out when those colors may not be a great representation of what the true/natural colors are in-fact.
What may be an even more accurate indicator of whether the ones I work with and the ones you have are closely related would be body size. I know the only way (main way really) to tell the difference between my Darklands and the Caucheros in the hobby now is the fact that every adult Cauchero I have received info on is much larger than any adult Darklands I have. How big are yours Chris?

Rich
 

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Discussion Starter #15
They're easily noticeably bigger than my Cayo de Aguas, maybe almost Basti size or a little smaller.
Just for timeliness here's a belly shot of the male, if anything their bellies are almost identical and there might be a little more black spotting on the lower belly than upper, I might be able to get more later but I needed to spray and dump ff's in just to get him to squeeze out a little for this one - they're brom-bound today since they seem to sense that I want pics and are determined to thwart my efforts at all costs haha:

 

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My understanding for Uyamas (and Robalos for that matter) is that the pattern seen on the dorsal surface is the basically same on the ventral surface. With how much white is on the belly of yours, I would be surprised if they were Uyamas. That much white looks more to me like a Basti. 3 months and I'll get these questions answered, lol.
 

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Yeah if they were CB then I would actually think they were hybrids but they're imports. There's a little more black spotting on the lower bellies and i thought they were a little like Robalo bellies, but if these are bastis then i got the most outrageous bastis on the board lol!
 

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OK was able to get female belly shot, still can't get the lower belly though!



Here's a bit of a blurry one of her but it shows some of the coloration:

 

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Well, for the last couple of days the male has cut down his calling 90-95% and they been hanging out next to each other under some leaf litter.....
 
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