Dendroboard banner

1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
561 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I’ve been keeping dart frogs for about 5 years. Two weeks ago, one of my p.terribilis had a prolapse. I contacted a herp vet in the Philadelphia area and posted a treatment question on another board. We soaked the frog per instructions and the prolapse wet back in. I got a lot of helpful feedback and was directed to this board as a good source of information. (Thanks Jon!)

We kept it wet and the prolapse went in within 2 hrs. No worries during the week, he was eating and acting as normal… until this weekend when he prolapsed again. We soaked him as last time, but the prolapse would not go in. This morning, it was in, but then reappeared by 11 AM, so we took him to a 2nd vet. The vet asked about feeding, supplements, and housing. He said that the only thing he sees could be the problem is calcium deficiency resulting from our lighting setup. We have acrylic tanks with UV tubes overtop. He said that the UV lights must be inside the enclosures because they need the UV to produce D3 to metabolize the calcium – but the acrylic filters out the UVs. I understand his position, but I have never seen frog setups that allow for unfiltered UVB light exposure, they are always on the outside – one time I saw one with a screen top at Reptiland Zoo in PA, but this seemed to be an exception rather than a rule. I have seen many setups (some by the leading authorities on dart frog husbandry in the country) and I cannot think of more than one or 2 that had lighting that was not filtered by either glass, plexiglass or acrylic. I have also read discussions on the merits of UVB for amphibians, but I saw nothing that drew a definitive conclusion that UVB was needed.
I have other 12 frogs and have no problems at all with them, we examined the other p. terribilis from the sameenclosure tonight and there seem to be no issues.


Maybe I missed an important feature, but do any of you have unfiltered UVB lighting in your enclosures? Also how often do you supplement your frogs?
Thanks
Ed
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
13,229 Posts
I think this is a common question with no direct answer. I have heard some people claim that UV can keep defects down, and others say they use no light at all. I can not imagine the frogs get much light in the wild, but I have never seen the local habitats. Maybe Dr. Frye will see this and respond.

I use some UV lights and some not, but all are outside the tank so not much gets in the tank.


Ed Martin said:
I’ve been keeping dart frogs for about 5 years. Two weeks ago, one of my p.terribilis had a prolapse. I contacted a herp vet in the Philadelphia area and posted a treatment question on another board. We soaked the frog per instructions and the prolapse wet back in. I got a lot of helpful feedback and was directed to this board as a good source of information. (Thanks Jon!)

We kept it wet and the prolapse went in within 2 hrs. No worries during the week, he was eating and acting as normal… until this weekend when he prolapsed again. We soaked him as last time, but the prolapse would not go in. This morning, it was in, but then reappeared by 11 AM, so we took him to a 2nd vet. The vet asked about feeding, supplements, and housing. He said that the only thing he sees could be the problem is calcium deficiency resulting from our lighting setup. We have acrylic tanks with UV tubes overtop. He said that the UV lights must be inside the enclosures because they need the UV to produce D3 to metabolize the calcium – but the acrylic filters out the UVs. I understand his position, but I have never seen frog setups that allow for unfiltered UVB light exposure, they are always on the outside – one time I saw one with a screen top at Reptiland Zoo in PA, but this seemed to be an exception rather than a rule. I have seen many setups (some by the leading authorities on dart frog husbandry in the country) and I cannot think of more than one or 2 that had lighting that was not filtered by either glass, plexiglass or acrylic. I have also read discussions on the merits of UVB for amphibians, but I saw nothing that drew a definitive conclusion that UVB was needed.
I have other 12 frogs and have no problems at all with them, we examined the other p. terribilis from the sameenclosure tonight and there seem to be no issues.


Maybe I missed an important feature, but do any of you have unfiltered UVB lighting in your enclosures? Also how often do you supplement your frogs?
Thanks
Ed
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
370 Posts
Does your supplement contain D3?

Alot of people don't use the UV lighting because the supplements they use contain D3, thus eliminating the need for the frog to produce their own.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,052 Posts
Re:UVB Supplementation

Sorry to hear that this frog is still having problems. Hopefully some people on this board will be able to help you get this guy better. I don't really now how to treat this ailment at all, but I will comment on the other questions you brought up.

I have some of my tanks with UVB bulbs, and some without... but most of it is filtered out by the glass tops (I assume), so I am not too sure which I would say is better for the frogs (with or without UV). I don't think adding UV to their tanks would hurt the frogs (as long as it isn't a very intense amount), and I think dusting with calcium is more important. I dust almost every day with some sort of supplement (using Rep-Cal & Herptivite). But like Kyle said, these question are still ones with no definite answers. I hope I made some sense as it is getting late and I am tired.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
561 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I use repcal with D3, but the Doctor’s position that the amount of supplementation did not matter if the animal could not metabolize the vitamin. The ability to metabolize D3 is facilitated/enhanced by UVB. Studies have shown that glass and plexiglass filter out the beneficial UVB light. I understand how this applies to lizards, but I as Kyle said I thought the jury was still out on amphibians.
I agree that calcium deficiency is a definite problem with this frog, but the other frogs tested fine. I plan to start supplementing more frequently.
So far at least it does not sound like many people have UVB inside their enclosures, are you supplementing daily?

Ed
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
370 Posts
I think you might have things a little miss construde. UV is need for the production of D3, which is need to metabolize calcium. In the absence of UV no D3 is produced, but assuming it was given in a supplement it could still be used. You can however over supplement with D3 and posion an animal, but frankly I have never seen this happen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
370 Posts
Sorry, missed the last question.

I use Herptivite about 3 to 4 times a week and Reptocal once a week. In my large tank I have UV lighting, but none over any of the smaller ones.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
561 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
My staple food is d. hydei. I'll supplement that with springtails, flour beetle larve, termites (when I can get them) and occasionally maggots that I get from the baitshops in the fall. Nothing big. Pinhead cricket are a rare treat.

Thanks for the input. I really just wanted to know if anyone uses UVB inside their frog enclosures or utilizes screen tops so the light is not filtered. I believe that the overwhelming respose will be no.

Ed
 
G

·
Sorry missed this thread earlier.

Glass and regular plexiglass will filter out almost all if not all UVB lighting.
I do know thay you can by an acrylic, called solacryl and it allows UVB to pass through. Here is a link about it: http://www.portplastics.com/download/pdf/plastics/Commodities/Commodities22.pdf Also how old are your suppliments? I use Repcal w/D3 and Herptivite. You may also want to try feeding very small crickets, I believe they are higher in calcium than most food items.

I don't use UV lights over my tanks right now, but changing all my egg feeders to tanks with UV lighting.

Hope this helps,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
561 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks for the info Ben, that acrylic looks interesting, and might be something to consider in the future. I have UVB lights over the enclosures
just because I think that the animals and plants look better, but I figure the acrylic I'm using filters out most of the beneficial light.

I do not want to take this thread off track but have any of you ever had any issues with crickets escaping into the vegetation of the vivarium, growing up and doing any damage to your frogs? A couple years ago I had a one week old cricket grow up in a large heavily planted enclosure. A few weeks later I heard it singing. I eventually caught it and it was almost as big as the dwarf french guinian (sp) tincs I had in there with it. It did not do any damage, but made me a bit paraniod. Now when I feed crickets, I generally put them in a small bowl and the frogs climb in the bowl and eat, but they can still escape.
Ed
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top