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UVB exposure Dendrobates

45427 Views 166 Replies 26 Participants Last post by  parkanz2, 
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First part

https://aark.portal.isis.org/researchguide/amphibian%20zoo%20studies/amphibian%20uv-b%20and%20vitamin%20d3.pdf


UV-B, Vitamin D3, and amphibian health and behaviour
Dr Robert Browne, Postdoctoral Fellow, [email protected]; and Dr. Francis Vercammen, Veterinary Officer,
Center for Research and Conservation, Royal Zoological Society of Antwerp, Belgium.
Elfi Verschooren, University of Antwerp, Belgium.
Rachael E. Antwis, Faculty of Life Sciences, University of Manchester, UK.
We thank Richard Gibson, Chester Zoo, for his personal contribution on “UV-B boost”.
Browne RK, Verschooren E, Antwis RE, Vercaammen F. 2009. UV-B, Vitamin D3. AArk Science and Research.



For a review of the biology of Vitamin D3 and UV-B metabolism in amphibians see; Antwis RE, Browne RK. 2009.
Ultraviolet radiation and Vitamin D3 in Amphibian Health, Behaviour, Diet and Conservation. Comparative
Biochemistry and Physiology Part A154(2): 184-190.


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This document provides a short summary of the biological issues concerning studies of Vitamin D3 and UV-B metabolism in amphibians. We also present some simple experimental designs. There have been many effects on health of vertebrates in general attributed to poor Vitamin D3 metabolism. However, only two effects have been recorded in amphibians. One is the loss of calcium from the skeleton and skeletal deformaties generically called nutritional metabolic bone disease (NMBD).
The other, being the converse situation, is an overdose of Vitamin D3 and the consequent elevated plasma calcium levels that cause excessive calcification of the skeleton and heart siezure. Generally in captivity a lack of dietary calcium or Vitamin D3 is attributed to the common disorders of hunchback or rubbery legs. Often frogs not showing skeletal deformaties will still have little calcium in their bones, and perhaps reduced circulating calcium necessary for physiological processes.

There have been many effects on health of vertebrates in general attributed to poor Vitamin D3 metabolism. However, only two effects have been recorded in amphibians. One is the loss of calcium from the skeleton and skeletal deformaties generically called nutritional metabolic bone disease (NMBD). The other, being the converse situation, an overdose of Vitamin D3 and consequent elevated plasma calcium levels that causes calcification of the skeleton, increased myocardial excitability and heart seizure. In captivity generally a lack of dietary calcium or Vitamin D3 is attributed to the common disorders of hunchback or rubbery legs. Often frogs not showing skeletal deformaties will still have little calcium in their bones, and perhaps in their plasma. Approximately 20% calcium loss in bones can be detected on
radiographs and a loss of 35% can lead to rubbery legs. A shortage of calcium in amphibian metabolism results in lack of calcification of the bones – called nutritional metabolic bone disease (NMBD), and other health problems including lethargy, poor growth,and possibly poor reproductive success. Both anabolism and catabolism are involved in Vitamin D3 metabolism. Vitamin D3 is required for the transport of calcium from the intestine into the blood stream. Vitamin D3 can be acquired through the diet or by synthesis in the skin under the influence of UV-B. UV radiation is emitted by the sun as wavelengths ranging from 400 nanometres (nm) to 100 nm.

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motydesign
well i guess i should stop bugging Ed with the PMs and bring it on here.

ive looked at the lamps that have been suggested and see that they are rated at 61uw/cm2 and have a life of about 1 year. the lamp is suggested to be at 12" from the reptile (amphibian in our case :) . this would require the lamps to sit almost on the uv transparent glass. which would introduce a large heat load on the viv.

Azurel introduced me to a LED manufacturer who creates narrow banded UVB diodes. selecting the 295nm led (Ed provided data above that states this is the most efficient nm for transformation of 7-dehydrocholesterol to preD3)
the led has a perfect spectrum


the output is 5- 9 times higher as its at 300 to 500uw/cm2.

ive contacted the manufacturer to find out what the diode has for life span as well as where the drop off in time the out put lies, as well as if the diode output can be lowered with a potentiometer.

the idea is a .326 hole is cut into a standard viv what ever the height and style. the graph for output followed that they provide for 61uw/cm2 to insure plants are not harmed, and then program a timer for output duration.



the LED has a 120 degree view angle

now i just need the manufacturer to answer.... the sad part of this is EACH led is $140.
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motydesign
Pumilo said:
Could it be made as a "mobile" unit, and would it's output be sufficient to do the once a week or once every other week, for an hour or two, method? If so, that $140 would still be cheaper to put one unit together that you could move viv to viv, than it would be to try to buy UV systems for every viv or even the cost of modifying a few vivs with special, UV friendly glass or acrylic.
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i dont see why not? my only question is required exposure time something ed may need to answer
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motydesign
Then that answers our question on dosing a viv like visiting a tanning salon.
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motydesign
motydesign said:
Then that answers our question on dosing a viv like visiting a tanning salon.
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I just realized I need to shut my mouth until I read the other pages of info. I now understand the hardware and a tiny bit of the chemistry. I need to understand the biology before I make a silly comment like "sure why not" hopefully tomorrow I can be alittle more informed on this after reading the provided info.
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motydesign
sorry Ed, i caught my self making conclusions and assuming things. then i realized i needed to understand a bit more about exposure limits before jumping to generalized statements. sorry for the confusion, ill have some intelligent questions here in a bit though! not to mention now i see grabbed my quote instead of yours.... yeah that whole post just went array.
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motydesign
hahah thank you doug. but really its been from reading all these papers!!! i think i had a mind cramp.

anyway BACK ON SUBJECT!

so reading the papers i find it very interesting that the pumilio seems to choose and call in micro habitats with very low exposures .12uw/cm2! natural habitat has 5-15uw/cm2.

if we agree that the frogs self regulate exposure to UVB then this suggests the pumilio (and i believe auratus if i read right) are likely to be efficient at biosynthesis.

this being said, most lights are capable of simulating natural habitat at 16uw/cm2 and much higher.

this in my mind suggest the best application for a hobbiest would be to do one or two things.
1. have a consistent low exposure with a timed high exposure
2. have a timed high exposure and allow the frog to choose its basking

is there error in thought for my options?
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motydesign
darn this means only one thing.... spend LOTS of money one way or another.

i called the manufacturer of the LEDs today, waiting on a call back.
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motydesign
ryan i think that you forget that the methods of providing UVB will actually dose the complete viv. lets say the 120 view angle led in a 40 Breeder vert (gives you a 2' from frog to LED) in this situation the 120 view angle 2' above the frog is providing a 7' diameter circle. clearly larger than the floor of a 18X16 40 breeder floor.


the other is a T5HO bulb with a UV transparent top evenly dosing the entire viv at 16uW/cm2 at the top with a decay of power by the time it reaces the floor.

so #2 still works. the frogs are out the LED is on, UVB is being administered at this point the frog will go to cover if it no longer needs the UVB. also consider this is a long term application with daily exposure.
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motydesign
Ed said:
Oral overdoses of D3 result in anorexia, depression, polyuria/po;lydipsia, weight loss, calcification of soft tissues,

Ed
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does depression indicate intelligence? or should we assimilate depression (lack of activity) with stress?
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motydesign
Reef_Haven said:
Yes,
That was the point I was trying to make, people shouldn't assume the frogs are basking in sunlight in an attempt to gain UVB. If there is no UVB in the sunlight coming thru the window, they are merely trying to adjust their body temp or maybe it just feels nice, but they aren't actually trying to obtain UVB.
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this doesnt take into consideration the COMPLETE light spectrum including UVA but minus UVB
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motydesign
rsain said:
getting a bit off topic but I'll bite

Now were sneaking up a little closer on my field. :D

That's a heavily loaded question (in many many ways). First, if you apply a natural scientific (read - not soft psychology stuff) argument then depression is nothing more than a label for a class (i.e., list) of behaviors. As a result we cannot say that a frog "has" depression. It can act in a depressed fashion (list behaviors here) - that is all. But the label does not explain the behavior (this would be reification and is a no no scientifically).

Second - intelligence - by what standard? WISC? WAIS? etc, etc. The evidence posted earlier indicates at least operant level of learning. That's pretty smart in my book. Of course, operant conditioning is very widespread.

:D

[/hijack]

- ryan
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thats why i asked for clarification. was wondering what Ed implied with the word he used.
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motydesign
/\ what he said :D
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motydesign
i received a call at butt crack of dawn and found out the LEDs are good for 5000-7000hrs, that the out put is lineal with use of their power supply and that there is a decay of output. Waiting on graphs of the lineal output to V input, as well as the decay. this would most likely require a meter and monthly monitoring to insure the unit is putting out the UVB at set levels.
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motydesign
no it doesnt, there are a few articles you need to read in this thread that will enlighten you.
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motydesign
its not the thread, its the articles haaha

i think i want to start a topic like this every week. i am going to need Eds help, but i would love to learn something like this as often as possible. maybe the general theme is understanding whats going on in you viv.
i hate to say it, but i really miss college :( all five years of it ;)
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motydesign
Ed said:
Well, the tank is 36 inches high... so that will cut it down some as will the addition of bait stations.. I'll still probably have to use a closable water bottle for my beverages while I'm working on the computer...

Ed
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hahah many of drinks have been lost in my home due to this:eek:
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motydesign
ed, what are you planning on having for exposure range through the tank during your "ON" period? will you be using a radiometer of some sort to measure initial set up and monitor?
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motydesign
Ed said:
At this moment the closest the frogs can get to the lights are about 5 inches.


Ed
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ahhh thats kinda what i was looking for! i read up on your solacryl and i am curious why you went with voids? it seems the product does 92% transmittance. so now im curious of your interest in the 8% missed?
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motydesign
Ed can you post me up something on what tachysterol is and does and such? my googling isnt finding me the info im looking for. also maybe a bit more info on the 340-400nm spectra (thats an easy and cheap one to replicate ;) )
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motydesign
Ed, im finding a little contradiction in this page (which ref. Webb and STAMP TBC) in what spectra is the most effective wavelengths that 7-dehydrocholestoral is absorbed (they are stating 270-290nm)

tachysterol seems to be some what a reserve if you will for PreD3 that easly converted back and forth with UVA and B. I think i understand that once the maximum D3 is produced (15%available) then it will start converting to the tachysterol. this i am now assuming since i havent read anything on it, is the part that tells the frog to start limiting its exposure, through detection in the pineal glad of the tachysterol levels. but what is the point of using UVA to convert the tachysterol back over to preD3? when there should be enough 7-dehydrocholestoral just to continue creating it through the UVB process?

would the levels of tachysterol need to flucuate so that the frog can regulate or is there a way for them to discard the tachysterol if there is no need for the reserve?
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