Dendroboard banner
1 - 5 of 5 Posts

·
Administrator
Joined
·
6,486 Posts
I firmly believe that an animal that does not bask regularly, is nocturnal and rests on the undersides of leaves during the day do not gain any benefit from UVB.
You might believe that, even firmly ;), but there enough counterexamples to make that general belief unjustified.

Interestingly, Agalychnis callidryas may not be one of those counterexamples, and there seems to be evidence that high levels of UVB (which are exceedingly easy to provide inadvertently where UVB output is not metered) is actually a health risk (increses fungal load) for the species.

"Here we used two methods of UV provision (“background UV” and “background UV with UV boost”) and two calcium gut-loading diets (5% and 10%) to assess the effects on a range of fitness measures in the red-eyed tree frog (Agalychnis callidryas). We found no effects of either UV treatment or calcium diet on growth, body condition or cutaneous bacterial communities of frogs, although subsequent to the UV boost, frogs had a significantly greater fungal load in comparison to frogs that were not UV-boosted. There were negligible differences in the breeding success of females according to UV exposure. Provision of the UV boost was not demonstrated to provide any real advantages for A. callidryas in terms of growth or breeding success. In addition, there were no benefits of a 10% calcium diet over a 5% calcium diet (in conjunction with regular dusting)."

Antwis, RE, Preziosi, RF and Fidgett, AL, 2014. "The effect of different UV and calcium provisioning on health and fitness traits of red-eyed tree frogs (Agalychnis callidryas." Journal of Zoo and Aquarium Research.


As for the UVB, I have read mixed messages about the need for it and Vit. D levels.
Most recommendations of this sort don't take into account the species in question ("all herps need UVB", which is patent hogwash, not only because there simply isn't data for most species we keep), and don't take into account the very real risks of potential harm whether physical or behavioral, and also underestimate the care and precision with which UVB needs to be offered to be safe. The considerations are quite complicated, and I personally like to use the most simple methods that provide the best care for the animal most reliably -- that entails no UVB for species that can be kept very healthy without it.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
6,486 Posts
these were RETF specific care sheets I consulted in the past, so it gets confusing to hear conflicting messages.
Understandable. Unfortunately, the web is littered with low quality "care sheets" posted by people who have never kept this or any similar species, and who are simply trying to advertise products.

A Duck Duck Go search pulls up, in order (no names given since we don't do vendor reviews here):

-- one site that looks legit since RETF is in the URL. Posts there are around 12 years old, and the 'purchase guide' page is stuffed animals and T shirts, a red flag that the content is aimed at people who think frogs are cute and that's why they want one.

-- the second one is a brick and mortar shop that sells everything from bearded dragons to tortoises to dart frogs. They're unlikely to have any long term care experience with RETFs, and unlikely to keep up with all the nuances of care for all the species they keep in the same way that the dairy guy at the grocery store has tried all those brands and flavors of yogurt or could give a rundown on how each performs in a naan bread recipe. Also, this shop is in the UK, which is the world's hot spot of UVB pushing. That's not to say that makes them incorrect (that would be a bald faced ad homenem), but different regions have different things they push and that should be taken into account when judging info. When someone from the US midwest tells you beef is a pretty healthy food, take into account where they're from in figuring out why they said that. ;)

-- the third is an Amazon affiliate site (hover over the links to products to see). That's one reason it recommends, say, artificial plants -- because real ones for vivs aren't really available on Amazon. One of the recommended 'recent posts' in the right sidebar of the RETF page is titled 'Do Frogs Have Backbones?'. If that's the sort of content the site owner thinks is relevant, then this is not a site that is going to give detailed care info that has been well researched.

-- the next is a site that has a laundry list of care sheets for the top 30 or so most popular herp pets, complete with Amazon links. The author of the page doesn't have real husbandry experience with all these species, because there simply isn't time enough in a day. And though this would be hard for a new keeper to figure out the author makes pretty basic mistakes such as "Make sure to mist all of the enclosure’s decorations and branches, as red eyed tree frogs get most of their water by licking foliage and sticks." (No, they don't.) The supplement recommendations are poor (check against the link @IShouldGetSomeSleep posted above), calling a Monsoon mister an advanced misting option is laughable, and so on (though these too are hard for a new keeper to notice).

Unfortunately (or maybe not, but still somewhat oddly) a keeper has to do much more and much deeper research now that more claims are being made online about animal care. Back in the day when there was one or two books at the library available on a species (if you were lucky) things were simpler. :)
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
6,486 Posts
One issue I had in the past was with mushrooms sprouting in the tank every so often & I did not know if it came from the bark, coconut fiber or banana tree soil. I was concerned the fungus may negatively impact the frog health
Fungi are ubiquitous. With an a positive air pressure clean room a person might exclude them, otherwise they'll be wherever they want to be. They're not in themselves harmful (although they might sometimes -- not usually -- signal that conditions in the viv are a bit wet or fouled, I suppose). They're just trying to be the decomposers that they are.

We have a nice recent thread in which we can appreciate them. Feel free to contribute photos. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tijl

·
Administrator
Joined
·
6,486 Posts
In what time frame should I see improvement with my frog's health and issues on the new diet?
Hopefully there will be a noticeable, steady increase each week, but I am wondering more for the sake of considering a vet visit?
Ie. If she doesn't improve or gets worse in 1 month, then go see a vet."
@IShouldGetSomeSleep (or other tree frog keepers who are watching this thread) might have some tree frog specific advice on this.

Me, I'd get them on a decent supplement routine and monitor, like you mentioned. Any downward progression at all, I'd think about a vet visit if I had access to a good one (I do). Might be good to reach out to one and see what the lead time is on an appointment. You can search for a qualified exotics vet here; not all qualified exotics vets are ARAV members, but a well intentioned dog and cat vet can easily do more harm than good.

A year with no supplements (basically no dusting, and both the Flukers and fresh vegetables have been shown not to work as gutloads -- check the supplements link for a reference) is sufficient time to kill frogs, so anything could happen at this point. Sounds like things aren't too bad yet, though. :)
 
1 - 5 of 5 Posts
Top