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Discussion Starter #1
Hey.

I have a problem.
I have 2 female and one male pumilio.
I had the 3 together in the terrarium of 40x40x50
Females laid eggs in the same roll of film. The male of the 2 fertilized egg production. I was advised to separate a female and I did.
Now the eggs are about to be born tadpoles. One is born. But I think the mother did not care for them.
The female took the male made ​​another set with 10 eggs and do not care which.

What should I do?
please, i need your help

(Greetings and sorry for the language)
 

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"IMO" is shorthand for "In My Opinion".

Congratulations Dendro! Better start those springtail cultures :)
 

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I like to keep my pumilio as groups of one male to 2-3-4 females...

I have found that no matter how many eggs they lay, or how many tads they transport, most will only be able to bring 2 tads to morph, per female.

I've had tanks of 4 females morph 8 at once...

But have never had 1.1 morph more then 2 from a clutch.

IMO :) I would keep them as 1.2 and just add more broms...

Good luck
 

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Discussion Starter #8
interesting!

the problem is that my vivarium is 40x40x50 and I can´t fill it with bromeliads.

someday I'll put in another larger vivarium full of bromeliads.

of time has to be so.

thank you very much
 

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I have found that no matter how many eggs they lay, or how many tads they transport, most will only be able to bring 2 tads to morph, per female.
I've had up to 4 or 5 morph at a time from one female, and one of my pumilio tanks has at least 5 tadpoles in the water right now. I just added a possible female which would give me a 1.2 trio... hopefully that means lots of froglets will be crawling out of that viv! Congrats with the transported tadpole(s), hopefully you will find some froglets in a couple of months.
Bryan
 

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I have had more froglets from my couples as well, last time i got 7 out of 1.1 of my almirante.

It's the first time i got some eggs with a trio of my punta clara.
It seems like both females layed eggs that are fertilized.
One clutch of hatched tadpoles were transported and i saw some feeder eggs with them.
But since the other female got gravid, the male chases this one in stead of watching over his offspring with the other lady :)

Good to hear about some good experience with 1.2 as well.
Hopefully he isn't just fertilizing eggs all the time in stead of watching over the tadpoles :)
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Now I have only 1.1 in the pumilio tank.
The other female is separated.
So, as you say, the male chases her not to lay eggs. This is what happened before.

Now that are alone 1.1, the parents feed the tadpoles.

I have a doubt
¿Can two tadpoles live in the Same bromeliad?
 

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But since the other female got gravid, the male chases this one in stead of watching over his offspring with the other lady :)
Good to hear about some good experience with 1.2 as well.
Hopefully he isn't just fertilizing eggs all the time in stead of watching over the tadpoles
You do realize that with pumilio, the males "watching" over the tadpoles is not normal behavior? The male should guard the eggs.. once the female transports them (which in the wild can be several hundred feet away to disparate locations) he has nothing more to do with the clutch.. If the male is chasing the second female, either he is attempting to court her or he is chasing her from a clutch of eggs he is guarding... Unless something is wrong he shouldn't be guarding tadpoles...

Some comments,

Ed
 

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You do realize that with pumilio, the males "watching" over the tadpoles is not normal behavior? The male should guard the eggs.. once the female transports them (which in the wild can be several hundred feet away to disparate locations) he has nothing more to do with the clutch.. If the male is chasing the second female, either he is attempting to court her or he is chasing her from a clutch of eggs he is guarding... Unless something is wrong he shouldn't be guarding tadpoles...

Some comments,

Ed
What i've seen with them is the male was going in a bromeliad.
Got out and lured the female there.
She went in that axel, with the tadpole in it and layed an egg for food.

I've also seen males carrying tads away once hatched, or a male calling to a female to guide here to an axel with a tadpole on her back.

So i'm not all that certain his care stops with fertilization and watching the clutch until it hatches.

It seems to be going allright by the way.
The male calling for both females from the spots the tadpoles are located ;)
That's how i found there were tads in the first place since i didn't expect it that quick after introducing him.
It was merely to see if the other 2 were females since nothing seemed to happen.


http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/3195-male-pumilio-carrying-tads.html
 

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What i've seen with them is the male was going in a bromeliad.
Got out and lured the female there.
She went in that axel, with the tadpole in it and layed an egg for food.

I've also seen males carrying tads away once hatched, or a male calling to a female to guide here to an axel with a tadpole on her back.

So i'm not all that certain his care stops with fertilization and watching the clutch until it hatches.

It seems to be going allright by the way.
The male calling for both females from the spots the tadpoles are located ;)
That's how i found there were tads in the first place since i didn't expect it that quick after introducing him.
It was merely to see if the other 2 were females since nothing seemed to happen.


http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/3195-male-pumilio-carrying-tads.html
Abnormal behaviors.... are abnormal behaviors... Look at the multitude of behavioral studies on them in the wild....

Ed
 

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No idea why it would be any different in captivity then,
couldn't it be normal behaviour if more people found the males do things like this?
Does it perse need to be recorded by a scientist of some kind in order to be the right behaviour?
I'll tell them that next time i see it happen....thank you :)
 

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No idea why it would be any different in captivity then,
couldn't it be normal behaviour if more people found the males do things like this?
Does it perse need to be recorded by a scientist of some kind in order to be the right behaviour?
I'll tell them that next time i see it happen....thank you :)
Abnormal behaviors that are an artifact of captive conditions or husbandry methods are well known across multiple taxa.. for another simple example we can look at feather plucking in psittacines...

If we look at the natural ecology of pumilio for example.. we can see that the transport by the males isn't good for the tadpoles since the females are the ones who go back and provision the tadpoles and in the wild refuse to feed tapoles that are displaced by even a couple of centimeters... See http://www.harding.edu/plummer/herp/pdf/wilhelmamp10.pdf (free access) so we can see that tadpole transport by males is a death sentence unless the tadpole somehow gets transferred to a female placing tadpoles..
We can also debunk the "male calling the female to feed the tadpole" claim by simply looking at the behaviors.. The females do not feed a tadpole that they did not placed themselves and tadpoles can be placed more than 20 meters from the male's territory (which is significantly smaller) and is done without the male accompaning her (so how would he know where the tadpoles are placed?)....
It is different in captivity since you are forcing the animals to live under conditions that deviate from the wild... this is not an uncommon event across multiple taxa...(including sterotypical behaviors in other taxa). Aberrent behaviors should be heavily scrutinzed as it often indicates high stress levels and other impacts that are detrimental to the long term health of the frogs. Breeding does not indicate healthy or "stress free" animals..

Some comments

Ed
 
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Discussion Starter #20
good info Ed!

my female pumilio carries its tadpoles.

But I have a problem.
There are many tadpoles in the terrarium and the mother did not carry them.
The mother has left 5 tadpoles Pumilio without transport.
And now she has more tadpoles to be born.
I do not think transports the water because there is sufficient bromeliads.
 
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