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Picked up this dart frog from a Petco. I believe it was labeled as a Tinc, although its not uncommon for Petco to mis-label an animal. The more I look at it and search pictures, the more I think it looks like a Auratus. I've attached some pictures, any advice from those more experienced (I have none) is much appreciated.
 

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Auratus (or worst case auratus-tinctorius hybrid.)
seem like a very very young frog that only just lost his tail.

Springtails, small flies and small flies will help to get this frog big ;)
 

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Been feeding mel flightless flys. Will add some springtails to the QT. Anyway to determine if hybrid? Will it be infertile if it is a hybrid?
 

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It will become more obvious as the frog matures. It would surprise me if it was a hybrid, though. Even the most unscrupulous breeders know better than to produce hybrids. To me, it doesn't matter if it's sterile or not because such a frog shouldn't be bred. Stick with frogs that you know the origin for breeding.

Mark
 

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It will become more obvious as the frog matures. It would surprise me if it was a hybrid, though. Even the most unscrupulous breeders know better than to produce hybrids. To me, it doesn't matter if it's sterile or not because such a frog shouldn't be bred. Stick with frogs that you know the origin for breeding.
Mark
Disappointing, was hoping to try and breed one day. Maybe I will attempt to get breeders contact info to verify. If not I'll get some I know for sure the origin. I know and understand why hybrids are frowned upon and certainly don't want to do that.
 

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I'll get some I know for sure the origin.
Please do this.

There is no reason to believe that any info you get from anyone on a Petco animal is true, no matter how convinced you are by that information. My magic 8 ball gives more reliable answers.

Breeding frogs is awesome -- please don't cut any corners, because then it won't be awesome.
 
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I'd be surprised if they tell you who they get them through. However, if they do please share with us!
 

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I'd be surprised if they tell you who they get them through. However, if they do please share with us!
It has been reported that Petco buys some of their animals (darts, I believe; I do not know what else) from Vista (they buy other animals from Mack, and from Gourmet Rodent, and from Calzoo) . Vista (like Calzoo) buys from anyone who will sell them animals. You could sell to them. I could sell to them.

This means that darts sold at PetCo are identifiable only insofar as the seller (you, me, dude in an alley) identified them correctly. Do all providers of wholesale animals ID them correctly? What if some morphs sell at a premium; would I lie? What if some sellers are known hybridizers (LLL/Vista claimed to stop buying from such a source after hobbyists complained; did they actually stop? How would I know?)? What if some sellers don't know exactly what they're breeding?

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, and in the case of wholesalers who buy from unknown breeders and jobbers, that link could be very weak indeed, and no one would know.
 
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I'd be surprised if they tell you who they get them through. However, if they do please share with us!
It has been reported that Petco buys some of their animals (darts, I believe; I do not know what else) from Vista (they buy other animals from Mack, and from Gourmet Rodent, and from Calzoo) . Vista (like Calzoo) buys from anyone who will sell them animals. You could sell to them. I could sell to them.

This means that darts sold at PetCo are identifiable only insofar as the seller (you, me, dude in an alley) identified them correctly. Do all providers of wholesale animals ID them correctly? What if some morphs sell at a premium; would I lie? What if some sellers are known hybridizers (LLL/Vista claimed to stop buying from such a source after hobbyists complained; did they actually stop? How would I know?)? What if some sellers don't know exactly what they're breeding?

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, and in the case of wholesalers who buy from unknown breeders and jobbers, that link could be very weak indeed, and no one would know.
Thanks for the info. Very good points. Wouldn't this be true no matter where you purchased them? Are there some reputable places I could buy from where I know I'm getting what is being advertised? I definitely don't want to jeopardize/harm the hobby. I probably will put this guy in an empty 10 gallon I have sitting around.
 

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If you wanted to play devils advocate, you could argue that’s the case. However, not everyone is selling their frogs to second and third parties. As such it’s easier to retain pedigree.

Should this young frog ever distribute its gametes, (hopefully to the same auratus variation) labeling it with any sort of pedigree becomes the issue of making the hobby less awesome. If you in the future have an uncommon locality of auratus you’d like to breed for conservation efforts and I sorta have this one the kinda might be the same, there in lies an issue.

Wonder if anyone is doing karyotypes for Dendrobates species and their variations.
 

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Thanks for the info. Very good points. Wouldn't this be true no matter where you purchased them? Are there some reputable places
Buy from breeders (i.e. a person who actually owns the breeding stock and actually produces the offspring). Research the breeder before you purchase.

Just like buying anything else. Fine art? A reputable gallery, not eBay. Brand name electronics? A reputable electronics dealer, not some random Amazon seller. Animals? Not a chain store.
 

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It has been reported that Petco buys some of their animals (darts, I believe; I do not know what else) from Vista (they buy other animals from Mack, and from Gourmet Rodent, and from Calzoo) . Vista (like Calzoo) buys from anyone who will sell them animals. You could sell to them. I could sell to them.
I called the Petco where I got the dart from. The customer service rep I spoke with told me they get their herps from a place called Northwest Zoological Supply. From looking at their website most of the animals they wholesale are breed in house. I sent Northwest Zoological an email, waiting to hear back.
 

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Huh.

Here's their current 'wanted to buy' listings on Kingsnake:

Kingsnake.com Classifieds - Vendor Profile | Northwest Zoological Supply, LLC

They are not looking for darts today, but I'll bet they have a dedicated breeder (one who produces thousands of frogs a year, but who doesn't sell any retail despite having a big flashy website).
Good find. I think your right. A second glance at their homepage states most "companion" animals are breed in house. It looks like their "companion" animals are mostly rodent type pets, not herps. Will update if I get any new info from them via email.
 

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They are not looking for darts today, but I'll bet they have a dedicated breeder (one who produces thousands of frogs a year, but who doesn't sell any retail despite having a big flashy website).
Not such a flashy website, NWZoo<dot>com is pretty dull. I checked the code and there's a good amount of content that is broken. Their species descriptions have info, but the method of calling the description box is depreciated in HTML5.
But, and a big but, the Author meta for the site lists: Michael Jacobi- a long time tarantula breeder and innovator. This should give pause, maybe they aren't just mass producing putz's. From my past experience with him, I have high regard for the guy. They might just be a pretty stand-up company. They at least have the pedigree for good breeders.
But it is also true that their sourcing from Kingsnake is a weak link. But that, in itself, may just be the compromises you have to make to operate at high volume.
 

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Not such a flashy website, NWZoo<dot>com is pretty dull. I checked the code and there's a good amount of content that is broken. Their species descriptions have info, but the method of calling the description box is depreciated in HTML5.
But, and a big but, the Author meta for the site lists: Michael Jacobi- a long time tarantula breeder and innovator. This should give pause, maybe they aren't just mass producing putz's. From my past experience with him, I have high regard for the guy. They might just be a pretty stand-up company. They at least have the pedigree for good breeders.
But it is also true that their sourcing from Kingsnake is a weak link. But that, in itself, may just be the compromises you have to make to operate at high volume.
Interesting stuff -- thanks for uncovering it.

The 'flashy website' I was referring to (unclearly, I guess -- totally my fault) is one owned by that commercial breeder who shall not be named -- patriotic name, fancy names for common morphs of frogs, has openly sold hybrid frogs in the past. I was insinuating that NWZoo buys from them, since this certain breeder claims to breed (tens of?) thousands of animals a year and seems to retail far less of them than many smaller commercial online breeders (such as Josh's and the like).

And I agree with you: there are compromises to be made to make any sort of a decent living in wholesaling herps, and people deserve to make a decent living. They're wholesaling pet-quality animals, so as long as each animal is healthy and not grossly mistreated, they've cleared a bar that is high enough, I guess.

This thread, though, started out reaching for something above that bar -- not even very far above, but still way out of reach in this situation, I think.
 
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Not such a flashy website, NWZoo<dot>com is pretty dull. I checked the code and there's a good amount of content that is broken. Their species descriptions have info, but the method of calling the description box is depreciated in HTML5.
But, and a big but, the Author meta for the site lists: Michael Jacobi- a long time tarantula breeder and innovator. This should give pause, maybe they aren't just mass producing putz's. From my past experience with him, I have high regard for the guy. They might just be a pretty stand-up company. They at least have the pedigree for good breeders.
But it is also true that their sourcing from Kingsnake is a weak link. But that, in itself, may just be the compromises you have to make to operate at high volume.
If Michael Jacobi is actually working with them then that would be a good sign. He's a very respected part of the tarantula hobby.
 

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Interesting stuff -- thanks for uncovering it.

The 'flashy website' I was referring to (unclearly, I guess -- totally my fault) is one owned by that commercial breeder who shall not be named -- patriotic name, fancy names for common morphs of frogs, has openly sold hybrid frogs in the past. I was insinuating that NWZoo buys from them, since this certain breeder claims to breed (tens of?) thousands of animals a year and seems to retail far less of them than many smaller commercial online breeders (such as Josh's and the like).
Now I get it "they who shall not be named" do have a nice website, much cleaner code- but that's because they have a website vendor. I liked that their security keys and access code were there in plain text. Anyone want to spoof a site? Har har har- just kidding. Babes in the woods! When will they ever learn...

Россия, ты слушаешь?
 

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Looks like a standard blue and black auratus to me. Most definitely not a tinc. Petco probably googled blue dart frog and a tinc azureus was the first hit.
 
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