[volsgirl]

Hi all! I am a new member, but not new to pouring over all the info and advice I could find on this and other sites, and I'd like to give a great big thank you to everyone! I couldn't have made it this far without you. But I still need a little help.

I am almost finished with my vivarium. It is a 29 gal tall aquarium. I am planning on keeping P. Terribilis (orange) in it. I know the general rule is 1 frog per 10 gallons, but can I keep 3 of them in a tank this size? without causing undo stress?

When the frogs arrive they go in a grow out box/container right? How long before you move them to the permanent vivarium?

I will be using leaf litter in part of the vivarium. To help keep costs down, I plan on collecting my own, then boil/bake/microwave. Will any leaf do? or are there certain ones to avoid?

Which Temperature/ humidity gauge to get, analogue or digital? which kind is more trustworthy and accurate? Pros and cons? Also at what level do you place them? Near the top, more out of site? In the middle? or near the bottom, where the frogs hang out?

Again, thanks to everyone! I feel like I know some of you already. With all the great threads on this site I managed to set up a great new home for my future frogs. If I can figure it out I'll include some pics. Comments and criticism appreciated.

 

[carola1155]

Welcome! That is a very good first start and it is good to hear you've been doing lots of research.

I kept 3 Terribilis in a 29 gal for a while and never had any issues. I would recommend adding a coco hut or another similar hide space for them though.

The purpose of the temp container is to monitor the frogs and make sure that they are eating well and healthy without having to rip the tank apart to check on them. You can also utilize this time to get fecals and treat them for anything.

I'm assuming you are going to be putting the leaf litter over the exposed substrate on the right? You will want to cover that up as terribilis are aggressive eaters and it will help prevent them from jumping at food and ingesting some substrate in the process. Your best bet for leaves are magnolia as they will last pretty long. People also have success with oak and several others but they just break down quicker.

Ive never been one for temp/humidity guages so I'll leave that to someone else. I just use aquarium thermometers and pay attention to condensation.

Hope that helps a bit... good luck!

 

[Rusty_Shackleford]

Welcome to DB!! Nice looking viv. I can't directly address the P. terribillis question as I've never kept them. I can help you with some of your other questions though.
Generally if you're getting you're frogs shipped to you the container they arrive in is small, you're gonna want to move them out of that right away. I personally like to have my vivs up and running for at least a month, preferably two before I put in the permanent residents.
You want to look for tough leaves like oak, sycamore. Avoid leaves that turn mushy with moisture like maple and elm.
Put the temp/humidity gauge down low in the lower third of the viv. This will most accurately measure the conditions where your frogs spend most of their time. I completely avoid the analog models as they are not accurate at all. I also would stay away from the Exo-Terra brand as I have personally found them to be inaccurate and unreliable. You'll probably only use a temp/humidity gauge on your first few vivs, after that you'll know by experience when it's humid enough.
Currently I don't have any hygrometers (humidity gauge) in any vivs. I do have some zoo med and zilla digital temp w/probes. They come in handy for the most part. In a sealed up viv spraying a few times a week is usually enough to keep the humidity up. You also have a water feature which will aid in that and you shouldn't have any problems.
Also on a side not I think I noticed an asparagus fern in your viv. I'm not sure that's gonna hold up well to the constant high humidity. Just a thought.
Congrats, and good luck.

 

[volsgirl]

Thanks Carola & Rusty, for the advice!

Glad to hear that a trio should be fine, I really want three!

Yes, the leaf litter is going on the right side, covering all the dirt. How thick should it be?

I'm still a couple of months away from introducing the frogs. I still have to make it escape proof, and want to make sure the plants are established, like the asparagus fern. I hope it makes it, it's one of my favorites!

Thanks again!

 

[Rusty_Shackleford]

Get as much leaf litter as you can in there. A good two to three inches at least. Not only will the frogs use it as hiding and hunting spaces you'll develop a ton of microfauna in there for clean up and for the frogs to eat. Remember that over time the frogs will trample it down and it will start to decompose so in the matter of a few months what starts out as a big three inch pile of leaves will look like much less.

 

[carola1155]

Actually... Terribilis are one of the few species that usually wont even bother with microfauna. So leaf litter becomes less of a necessity compared to thumbs/pumilios that need good populations of springtails and whatnot.

To be honest... too much leaf litter will just give more hiding spots for crickets when you try to feed them (and you will want to feed them crickets... its AWESOME to watch)

Id say just lay down enough to cover the substrate sufficiently.

 

[Rusty_Shackleford]

Tom, excellent point about the crickets hiding.

 

[yours]

Darren Meyer -- MISTER TERRIBILIS himself -- says he doesn't really use leaf litter in his P. terribilis tanks(not much at all at least), and certainly does NOT seed the tank with springtails, as they'll be more of an annoyance than a help for this species. (now the bigger isopods -- wood lice and giant oranges are another story completely!)

So I definitely would heed that advice and not use many at all. Your tank looks great by the way! I'm almost jealous of your future frogs....heh...almost *grin* I definitely agree about the cocohut, a favorite spot for the bigger darts to congregate and use to breed! Also consider using an LED light, as Phyllobates are quite sensitive to the higher temperatures and LEDs cut back on heat output by TONS!(ligjtyourreptiles.com, Todd is THE man there!!)

Everything else looks crack-a-lack-ing!

 

[volsgirl]

Thanks everyone! So keep the leaf litter to a minimum, just enough to cover the dirt, to keep them from tracking it all over, and accidental ingestion, and so the crickets can't hide very well. I'll just keep a close eye on it and replace leaves when I start to see dirt.

I already asked the question about the springtails in the food and feeding section. because I had read that adult terribilis ignore them and didn't want to over-populate the viv. So, I'll just do isopods

I am planning to get a cocohut or two, I left enough space beside the asparagus fern, and there is also room at the far right side in the back next to the glass. I want to provide them with hiding spots for security, but I really don't want to see them easily( the huts, not the frogs).

The lights on this viv. are the 13w T2 tubes, not very common, but they are super efficient with very little heat. size is about 21 inches long, 11/2 inch deep, and 3/4 inch wide. that's the whole housing, not just the tube. It's 6400 k & 950 lumens. The pics were taken with only one turned on, and they are mounted about 4 inches above the glass, but I will definately keep check on them, if the temps seem high.

 

[carola1155]

If you want to go this route... My terribilis vivs were the only ones that I used moss like a carpet. A lot of people used to do this in every viv until the importance of leaf litter became well documented... but for terribs you can still get away with it and it looks pretty cool.

I just left a decent sized piece of slate in the middle of the tank that I used as the offering table for food. That way I wasn't covering my moss with vitamin powders (they kill the moss) and it was kinda entertaining watching them crowd around waiting for their offerings.

As for the cocohuts... you are going to want them to be easily accessible... If you get lucky and have a pair in there, you will definitely want to be able to monitor/remove eggs and tadpoles.

 

[volsgirl]

Accessible cocohuts! Great point, I haven't even begun to think about eggs/ tads yet, LOL. (if I am indeed lucky enough to get a pair), I've just been focused on making sure I can provide my future terribs with the best home possible.

 

[carola1155]

Haha yea it can be a lot but it is good to get it all going at once so you don't have to modify it later after the frogs are in it.

 

[tnwalkers]

just curious....do them frogs know Rocky Top yet?

 

[volsgirl]

No, But they are the right color....Go Big Orange!!!

I do however have a Sun Conure (parrot) that can sing Rocky Top, Can't really make out the words, but he has the tune down. lol.