[Mitch]

I'm thinking about selling off most of what I have on the frog rack (tanks + frogs and all) in order to build a big vivarium. I'm just considering this now so don't get all upset haha. The viv would be a corner tank and I'd completely "pimp" it out... everything would be automated and such. I'm thinking about the pros and cons right now of this and I'd like your opinions.
Pros:
-Much less care (from 4ish hours a week to less than one)
-A large vivarium has a nice impact on the room
-I can do more with this viv than any other I have ever built
-I can do everything right this time with more experience under my belt than before
-It would be friggin' awesome... just like Grimm's Peninsula
Cons:
-I won't be able to keep all my species of frogs
-It could get boring only having one viv

Also, since I keep 5 species now I'd obviously have to sell some off before I do this. I'm thinking of doing some "responsible" mixing since this viv would be 100+ gallons... maybe, say, leucs+vents, or azureus+imi's... something along those lines. Not sure about that yet. I just don't want to get rid of all my frogs!

Please help me out here!

 

[frogfreak]

I'm thinking of doing some "responsible" mixing since this viv would be 100+ gallons...

I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but what makes you think that a 100g tank is big? I just finished a 75g for a 2.1 group of Tincs. It doesn't look all that big to me. I'd go bigger if I could.

 

[CVB]

When I think big, I think something along the lines of 24 to 36" tall, 72" wide, 24 to 48" deep sitting two or three feet off the floor with plumbing in a cabinet under and routed behind (or through the floor of) the tank. That is in the neighborhood of 300 to 500 gallons, depending on configuration, and gives you an enormous amount of floor space.

For a room corner you could pretty easily get something triangular or trapezoidal in footprint so it draws view from the center of the room rather than parallel to the walls. Could be very nice, particularly if you combined an enormous amount of floor space with a good vertical element.

I feel like tanks over about 45x17x20 (Baker's Rack full length tank) should be approached from the assumption that they are for displaying the contents in a permanent fashion. Large tanks are not easy to move, place on racks, or make major design changes after initially established. It is wise to plan very carefully, use high quality components, and make every part of the tank accessible in some way, because inevitably any piece you cannot reach will break and ruin your work. That said, large tanks over unparalleled planting flexibility, since you can introduce species impractical for smaller tanks, and you can create varying conditions throughout the tank, such as large shadowed canopies, landscaping tiers, natural sloping, and other things that are just beautiful when done well.

If you're not one to get bored with a single species, or you have a couple species that are safe for cohabitation, it could make an excellent way to share your hobby with visitors; the humid, bug culture-packed, narrow-walkway frog room of many hobbyists is pretty intimidating to unfamiliar eyes.

 

[GRIMM]

Do it! Just make sure to keep a small tank or two just incase you buy more plants or need to move frogs for a while. Just be aware of the costs. If you are a perfectionist with ocd tendencies like me, the price gets up there pretty quick $$$

A lot of the larger european vivs seem to mix leucs with tri-colours. Im thinking it has to do with both having nice calls, being bold, and not being able to interbreed. Im not totally sure of all the reasons why this is the mixing "norm" so additional research could be a good idea. I just wouldnt flaunt it here to avoid the typical arguments.

 

[Mitch]

I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but what makes you think that a 100g tank is big? I just finished a 75g for a 2.1 group of Tincs. It doesn't look all that big to me. I'd go bigger if I could.

Never said it'd be 100g. I said over 100g, and that could be up to 300g. Depends on what I can fit in that corner. It can be the size of a bakers rack for all I know. I'm just thinking here... no real plans yet.

When I think big, I think something along the lines of 24 to 36" tall, 72" wide, 24 to 48" deep sitting two or three feet off the floor with plumbing in a cabinet under and routed behind (or through the floor of) the tank. That is in the neighborhood of 300 to 500 gallons, depending on configuration, and gives you an enormous amount of floor space.

For a room corner you could pretty easily get something triangular or trapezoidal in footprint so it draws view from the center of the room rather than parallel to the walls. Could be very nice, particularly if you combined an enormous amount of floor space with a good vertical element.

I feel like tanks over about 45x17x20 (Baker's Rack full length tank) should be approached from the assumption that they are for displaying the contents in a permanent fashion. Large tanks are not easy to move, place on racks, or make major design changes after initially established. It is wise to plan very carefully, use high quality components, and make every part of the tank accessible in some way, because inevitably any piece you cannot reach will break and ruin your work. That said, large tanks over unparalleled planting flexibility, since you can introduce species impractical for smaller tanks, and you can create varying conditions throughout the tank, such as large shadowed canopies, landscaping tiers, natural sloping, and other things that are just beautiful when done well.

If you're not one to get bored with a single species, or you have a couple species that are safe for cohabitation, it could make an excellent way to share your hobby with visitors; the humid, bug culture-packed, narrow-walkway frog room of many hobbyists is pretty intimidating to unfamiliar eyes.

Thanks for the advice! I'll take that all into consideration.

Do it! Just make sure to keep a small tank or two just incase you buy more plants or need to move frogs for a while. Just be aware of the costs. If you are a perfectionist with ocd tendencies like me, the price gets up there pretty quick $$$

A lot of the larger european vivs seem to mix leucs with tri-colours. Im thinking it has to do with both having nice calls, being bold, and not being able to interbreed. Im not totally sure of all the reasons why this is the mixing "norm" so additional research could be a good idea. I just wouldnt flaunt it here to avoid the typical arguments.

I have vivarium OCD too. I like the euro-mixing concept, but I have much more research to do!

 

[frogfreak]

Never said it'd be 100g. I said over 100g, and that could be up to 300g. Depends on what I can fit in that corner. It can be the size of a bakers rack for all I know. I'm just thinking here... no real plans yet.

DOH! Sorry Mitch, I should learn to read better.

 

[Mitch]

DOH! Sorry Mitch, I should learn to read better.

It's okay, I do it all the time!

 

[vivlover10]

If I did it I would probably get bored after a month and be like " next tank!" and relize that I can't build anymore. But go a head if your not like me. Plus for me I need more than one speices! The addiction!!!!! I don't no anyone ( forget about the people that left the hobby unvoulintaraly sp.) that got away from the addiction!

I would stick to the rack but that's me.

 

[PeanutbuttER]

I think a single large display viv would be awesome. That's on my list of "someday" things to do. I agree though that one viv could be hard, but it sounds like you've come to terms with the addiction

 

[fieldnstream]

I recently cut my collection down considerably, from around 25 tanks (I know not that many compared to lots of people on here) to just 2. I have to say that doing so has allowed me to focus a lot more on what I have kept and feels more rewarding. Instead of just glancing at each tank every day, I spend much more time really getting to know the frogs that I still have. Having one awesome tank to focus on might just be an incredible experience. Good luck with whatever you decide. Full disclosure: I am hoping you decide to build a killer huge tank for me to drool over.

 

[Dendroguy]

I,used to have a big corner tank...untill the doorknob happened
Anywho,I'm thing about a largeish 3*3 foot cube tank,with a fairly large,fast moving stream in the middle separating my group of P.aurotaenias from a group of vents or imis,I think this would be a real learning experience for you,and if you posted a construction journal,the whole Dendroboard community

 

[dravenxavier]

I think it sounds awesome. Not sure if you're a plant guy, but put plenty of branches/vines across a big tank, and you can shift your collecting tendencies from frogs to something like miniature orchids. Given enough surfaces in a really large tank, if you're selective with your orchids, you can take forever just adding to it. At least, that's probably what I'd end up doing... haha.

 

[Mitch]

If I did it I would probably get bored after a month and be like " next tank!" and relize that I can't build anymore. But go a head if your not like me. Plus for me I need more than one speices! The addiction!!!!! I don't no anyone ( forget about the people that left the hobby unvoulintaraly sp.) that got away from the addiction!

I would stick to the rack but that's me.

I don't think I'd get bored! If the tank is large enough there'd always be something cool to look at.

I think a single large display viv would be awesome. That's on my list of "someday" things to do. I agree though that one viv could be hard, but it sounds like you've come to terms with the addiction

Yup, the addiction has been in full force for a while now and I've learned to deal with it.

I recently cut my collection down considerably, from around 25 tanks (I know not that many compared to lots of people on here) to just 2. I have to say that doing so has allowed me to focus a lot more on what I have kept and feels more rewarding. Instead of just glancing at each tank every day, I spend much more time really getting to know the frogs that I still have. Having one awesome tank to focus on might just be an incredible experience. Good luck with whatever you decide. Full disclosure: I am hoping you decide to build a killer huge tank for me to drool over.

Yea, it was a much different experience when I had only 1 tank compared to my 5 now. I'm liking this idea more and more!

 

[Mitch]

I,used to have a big corner tank...untill the doorknob happened
Anywho,I'm thing about a largeish 3*3 foot cube tank,with a fairly large,fast moving stream in the middle separating my group of P.aurotaenias from a group of vents or imis,I think this would be a real learning experience for you,and if you posted a construction journal,the whole Dendroboard community

Sorry about the doorknob incident. This tank will be nowhere near the door . I'd love to have a big thread for all of DB to see!

I think it sounds awesome. Not sure if you're a plant guy, but put plenty of branches/vines across a big tank, and you can shift your collecting tendencies from frogs to something like miniature orchids. Given enough surfaces in a really large tank, if you're selective with your orchids, you can take forever just adding to it. At least, that's probably what I'd end up doing... haha.

Oh, I'm a big plant geek! I just don't have enough room to keep buying plants now. But with this tank... I would!

 

[Ross]

I say go for it.

Focusing on one huge project can leave you with something truly awe-inspiring.

This is one of my favorite corner displays.

A vivarium half the size of that one could have serious potential.

The topic has been discussed on DB before, but the American hobby seems to be lacking in large "Euro-style" displays; the emphasis stateside tends to be on collecting a variety of different species in single-species enclosures, which typically means compromising on living space for frogs.

If you do decide to take this route I doubt you will regret it. Just make damn sure you do it right the first time.

 

[EvilLost]

I'm thinking about selling off most of what I have on the frog rack (tanks + frogs and all) in order to build a big vivarium. I'm just considering this now so don't get all upset haha. The viv would be a corner tank and I'd completely "pimp" it out... everything would be automated and such. I'm thinking about the pros and cons right now of this and I'd like your opinions.
Pros:
-Much less care (from 4ish hours a week to less than one)
-A large vivarium has a nice impact on the room
-I can do more with this viv than any other I have ever built
-I can do everything right this time with more experience under my belt than before
-It would be friggin' awesome... just like Grimm's Peninsula
Cons:
-I won't be able to keep all my species of frogs
-It could get boring only having one viv

Also, since I keep 5 species now I'd obviously have to sell some off before I do this. I'm thinking of doing some "responsible" mixing since this viv would be 100+ gallons... maybe, say, leucs+vents, or azureus+imi's... something along those lines. Not sure about that yet. I just don't want to get rid of all my frogs!

Please help me out here!

I'm with you on everything you said, except the "big" part....100Gal is not very big at all...

when you say big I picture something with dimensions in the 4-6'++ range

 

[SmackoftheGods]

I'm thinking of doing some "responsible" mixing since this viv would be 100+ gallons...

I'm going to echo. 100 gallons isn't _that_ big. I know you qualified later that it _could_ be bigger, but "100+" implies that it _may_ be 100 gallons and it _may_ be bigger.

Next, "'responsible' mixing?" Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that you've been a hobbyist for about a year. I understand that people throw out vague descriptions of what's required for a truly responsible mixed viv like "ledges," "visual barriers," "niches," et cetera, but with what I understand to be your limited experience as a dart frogger, what makes you think you've developed the necessary skills to create a responsible mixed tank? I understand this thread has avoided the "flame war" thus far because the word "responsible" was used, but I think the phrase "responsible mixing" deserves to be evaluated before presenting an opinion.

All that said, I am a strong advocate of taking better care of a few species than mediocre care of a bunch of species. If you can find a species that you absolutely love and won't get bored with, I'd highly encourage you to trade your smaller vivs for a single large one.

I say go for it.

Focusing on one huge project can leave you with something truly awe-inspiring.

This is one of my favorite corner displays.

A vivarium half the size of that one could have serious potential.

The topic has been discussed on DB before, but the American hobby seems to be lacking in large "Euro-style" displays; the emphasis stateside tends to be on collecting a variety of different species in single-species enclosures, which typically means compromising on living space for frogs.

If you do decide to take this route I doubt you will regret it. Just make damn sure you do it right the first time.

That viv is a truly spectacular one. However, it looks like it's really a paludarium and that the base is entirely filled with water. Considering that azureus are being kept in this tank I have to wonder if, despite the awe-inspiring aesthetic quality of this viv, this is best suited for the inhabitants.

The argument comes up from supporters of the European way of doing things that larger tanks provide more "living space" for the frogs and are often better suited. However, I think the tank posted is a prime example of one that doesn't provide proper living space. Really, a smaller viv that is better designed to the needs of the frog is likely to be a better choice than that massive, well-scaped viv that has a base filled with water.... While large "Euro-style" vivs may provide more overall space, that is hardly adequate grounds to assume that, even for a single species enclosure (much less a mixed-species enclosure), these vivs are better suited than smaller vivs specifically designed for the inhabitants (rather than designed for aesthetic appeal).

Some thoughts....

 

[Markw]

Agrees, but it IS a stunning paludarium. Beautiful. I think it'd be great fun for you to do a large viv, though.

Mark

 

[Mitch]

God, I knew this would turn into a flame war. I also never said I'm absolutely going to mix. It was just an idea. This whole project is just an idea!

Ross, that is one amazing viv. Thanks for the advice too!

I measured out the space I would have for this viv. I think I could fit something like 4'x2'x2', if this would be a horizontal tank. That's 119.86g, which is not very big, but is fairly large (for what I'm used to). Guys, don't get angry and say "GAH THAT'S TINY YOU SHOULD ONLY HAVE ONE FROG IN A 500G VIV!!!11!." I could also do a huge vertically oriented tank, since the cieling is over 7' high. Just throwing ideas out here...

 

[Mitch]

Also, Jake, some of the stuff you said in that post is obnoxious. Please take your anger out elsewhere.