[NUGGET79]

Hi there,

When I was in my local reptile store last weekend, I noticed a little rescue bumblebee dart frog with what appears to be metabolic bone disease that they had taken in. He just spoke to me - I wanted to give him a good home and all the TLC he needs to live the best life possible. I emailed the store and they approved me to adopt him this weekend. I'll be bringing him home on Sunday and placing him in a 5-gal temporary enclosure. I need to watch him for a while and get a feel for his limitations before I determine the size/layout of his permanent bioactive enclosure.

My question for you folks is whether I should follow a typical supplement schedule or if he will require more to compensate for his condition? In general, I plan to loosely follow the Josh's Frogs supplement guidelines/calendar here: Link

Thanks in advance. I also plan to consult my vet, but thought I would query here in case any one else has has first-hand experience.

 

[Johanovich]

Hi there,

When I was in my local reptile store last weekend, I noticed a little rescue bumblebee dart frog with what appears to be metabolic bone disease that they had taken in. He just spoke to me - I wanted to give him a good home and all the TLC he needs to live the best life possible. I emailed the store and they approved me to adopt him this weekend. I'll be bringing him home on Sunday and placing him in a 5-gal temporary enclosure. I need to watch him for a while and get a feel for his limitations before I determine the size/layout of his permanent bioactive enclosure.

My question for you folks is whether I should follow a typical supplement schedule or if he will require more to compensate for his condition? In general, I plan to loosely follow the Josh's Frogs supplement guidelines/calendar here: Link

Thanks in advance. I also plan to consult my vet, but thought I would query here in case any one else has has first-hand experience.

Depending on how bad it is, it may be necessary to provide some extra measures. It's hard to make a call without more info and photographs, but here is a good guideline for emergency treatment of severely hypocalcemic (deficient) animals:

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www.amphibianark.org

I would recommend in this particular case to initially focus more on making sure that the MBD is fixed before moving on to more intricate supplementation schedules, so I'd say make sure that every dusting contains calcium and vit D and for the moment leave out specific supplementation like the folic acid, zinc and superpig that are mentioned in that schedule. An allround supplement that contains all the necessary vitamins and minerals together with calcium and vit D is what I would go for (e.g. dendrocare, calcium plus).

 

[Socratic Monologue]

I would be very cautious about using the supplement schedule you link to, NUGGET79. Not only is RepCal Herptivite a far from ideal product because there is research evidence that calls into doubt the ability of frogs to convert beta carotene to Vitamin A, but the outlined procedure of alternating the two RepCal products (Herptivite and Ca with D3) is not per the manufacturer's instructions (label says to mix the two before dusting).

Those protocols (using RepCal products, which were originally designed for herbivores and omnivores; also the idea of rotating products, which was in response to poorly designed/manufactured supplements that have been superseded by e.g. Repashy) are highly questionable.

 

[Kmc]

I have found that very small taxa affected sometimes require more intensive cal and d3 than they are able to feed on, ie catch, on their own.

It can be very meticulous work and I hesitate mentioning due to invasiveness of techique.

Perhaps a heap or FF larvae in calcium carbonate w d3 would be a good option as well as arav vet connect.

 

[Kmc]

Rinse the larvae in a tea strainer or other fine sieve. Not only is the muck of media kinda ripe with biological obscurities its presence all over the maggots takes up space better filled by your agent of choice - cal w d3.

Schedule would be Daily. Offered often as possible without stressing out the frog.

 

[Kmc]

You really want to keep every thing Low and easy in the h.env.

Darken a corner.

 

[NUGGET79]

Thank you all for your responses. I'm an ecologist by trade, so I am not up on the literature in the area of physiology. I do appreciate the explanations and the cautions about the products. By "loosely based," I more so meant the schedule rather than the exact products used - i.e. Monday/Wednesday/alternating Fridays calcium, Vitamin A about once per month (I already have some Repashy products) and mixing up the feeder organism a few times per month. It seems excessive from my perspective to require so many products. I was mostly concerned about the frequency and volume of supplements, but as you say, it kind of depends on where the frog is at in its recovery.

The reptile store has been caring for him for a while and is releasing him for adoption now that his condition has improved. I'll also be conferring with them on the regimen they've been using and whether they feel he has struggled to capture adult flies effectively.

 

[Kmc]

Thats good. I hope they help. When you get him, Rapashy cal plus which will also address his retinol A needs is imperative.
You might even suggest it yourself, if you think they would be receptive.
Schedules are a matter of opinion. Its case by case with intimate tie in to the individual subjects need.
There are observable stages to 'mbd' from a beginning slight tremor - in moments, to spontaneous fracture and deformity. But it can resolve.