[frankrom]

So I am constructing my first vivarium... and I am reading mixed information pertaining to the substrate to use.

I have created a false bottom, used the landscaping fabric but now I am trying to figure out what substrate I will put on top.

I read that a lot of people use ABG, but then found this forum

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/ge...0-ultimate-clay-based-substrate-thread-3.html

Where everyone starts discussing using Laterite & Redart in place of the ABG.

Can anyone make any recommendations?

Thanks

 

[frankrom]

thanks guys...

can anyone make any recommendations for the clay substrate? where to find it? a brand name? manufacture? location? anything

I am sure calling around asking for a clay substrate is going to get me no where.

oh ... can i just buy some clay substrate in a broken down form ready to be poured onto my false bottom? or does it all require you to make and bake it?

 

[frankrom]

In a deep spectral voice.. Read the Ultimate Clay Thread....

With the clay substrate you either make it yourself following one of the various recipes.. or you order a partially fired clay substrate like Turface from a John Deere Landscaping store....

Ed

If i order a partially fired clay substrate such as Turface it is ready to be put on top of my false bottom? or do you have to do something to it?

 

[frankrom]

Thanks for the replies... sorry if it dont seem to be completely grasbing this concept yet.

I found a supplier of the Turface products. They said they carry two types

1) Turface MVP which is kitter litter size and Turface Pro League which is coffee ground size. What would be the ideal size?

2) so you can't plant bromeliads into the clay substrate? That kind of sucks

3) I saw in Pumilo post he actually has some soil on top of his clay substrate or in front of it. Do you lay leaf litter right over top of the clay substrate or do you put some ABG or other soil over top of the clay substrate followed by the leaf litter?

 

[frankrom]

Where do the guys with clay substrate plant their bromeliads then? Can anything be planted into a clay substrate? such as orchids?

I have been learning a lot from this thread...

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/76255-how-build-viv-motydesign.html

and he used a clay substrate but i notice he has a lot of things planted into his substrate.

I just want to ensure I can use the ground of tank to plant some stuff as I dont want it to look completely empty!

Pumilo you said you may be able to plant the bromeliads into a homemade clay substrate? how is a homemade clay substrate different than the clay substrate from turface

 

[frankrom]

Not sure why one is assuming I have not read the clay threads as I had posted originally that I have. They are very, very technical and I am trying to learn from them. I am also one who learns by asking questions which is why i joined Dendroboard.

I am simply trying to ascertain if the home made clay that Pumilo made in his thread is just a substitute for the Turface Pro League or Turface MVP clay substrate. If they are one of the same then my personal preference would be to spend the money and buy one already made.

HOWEVER, if they are not the same and members are making their own because of that then it is a different story.

 

[frankrom]

Turface is partially fired making a lot of the "goodies" in the clay less available for microfauna or plants. The home made clay substrate is not a fired clay (drying in the oven is not nearly as hot as firing.)

Home made clay substrate is also a larger particle size than kitty litter (most people make it about 1/4" since that's a common size of chicken wire available.) This means that the bulk of water will drain through it more quickly than smaller particle substrates such as the turface. This drainage of water is important for many plants, especially epiphytes (most broms) because they're prone to root rot if in constant contact with water.

Hope that clears some stuff up.

NOW THAT clarify a lot! I didn't understand the difference which seemed to be my biggest issue. Turface has two difference sizes of clay substrate, kitty litter size and also coffee bean size. The coffee bean size being bigger and closer to the 1/4" size may be better than the kitty litter size for drainage.

Thank you parkanz2


again, I am posting very little little on this site because I am reading and finding most of my questions answered in threads such as motys build. HOWEVER, as you said and I am sure with every other beginner... that clay thread is crazy and hard to understand.

Edit:

My mistake i just got off the phone with turface... not sure where I got the coffee bean size but they just said the largest they have is the turface MVP which is about cat litter size

 

[frankrom]

Keep in mind many broms in my experience will do better near the upper canopy anyway so finding a way not to plant them in the substrate, no matter how well it drains, might be better. Like others have said, there are several species of plants that will do quite well in the substrate.

Check out Anubias nana. I have most of mine mounted to the background, but if enough light hits the substrate they would probably do quite well in the substrate as they can grow aquatically.

thanks again for you time and replies... thank you to everyone who replied.

Seems as if the turface stuff is fine but not the best... where as people striving for the best make their own clay. Moty used the stuff I have been researching and he didn't seem to have anything bad to say so.

 

[frankrom]

I love the debate.

Ed thanks for the information... this is proving to be very helpful.

It is clear the home made clay is extremely fragile and should not be touched where as the turface stuff is free to move and dig through if you needed to.

The biggest issue between using one or the other seems to be the lack of calcium in the turface product were the home made clay is calcium rich.

If one decided to go with turface - could the lack of calcium issue be solved with constantly dusting the frog food with calcium powder? or is this still not an ideal substitute?

I get that the home made clay does promote invertebrate production which is clearly beneficial.

Also I have attended a few nurseries with the list to make my own clay from Pumilo's post and I haven't found anyone who has not looked at me like I am all 'fucked up' lol. I do not think anyone is capable of ordering me the products to create my home made clay substrate.


One last thing it is clear that the home made clay has beneficial effects... however if not using home made clay it sounds to me and PLEASE correct me if I am wrong... but Ed you seem to make it sound like turface would be the next best product even over ABG mix if you cannot or choose not to make your own clay???


Frank