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:? Hi, I have a batch of azureus tadpoles which now have their front legs out. I need to determine if spindley leg is present. I read from books it would appear in the rear as well as front legs. My froglets have nice rear legs but the fronts seem on the thin side. They hop very well but their front arm movement seems limited.Do they use the front legs right away or do they need time to develop strength in them? Can spindley leg affect only the front legs? Please let me know,thank you for your time.
 

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The tadpoles/froglets should start to use their front legs before they completely loose their tail. If they can't hold their head up off the ground without effort or at all then they difinately have spindly-leg. It will become more evident as they grow older and chance are if they have spindly-leg they will die young.

Almost forgot. Spindly leg mostly is just the front legs, the back commonly look normal.

Best,

Chuck
 

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Spindly leg is a complex of causes covered under one name. This may lead people to believe that there are only a couple of potential causes and that these are easily remidied. The truth is that there are multiple potential causes that can require different approaches to resolve the issue. In fact the resolution may be unique for that person.
Some things to try, do not pull clutches for a month or more to rest the adults, change the supplements you are using, use larger containers to rear the tads (a quart or larger) and do not change the water, change the food you are offering the tads, add B vitamins to the tadpole water, add a small amount of an iodine containing food source, use tadpole teas, offer live foods, use small doses of UVB exposure and use aged tap water as opposed to carbon filtered, RO or DI water. These have all been used as sucessful "cures" for spindly leg.
 

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Jabba, I have a pair of Leucs that consistently produce spindly legged froglets. This has allowed me to experiment with some of the "cures" that Ed has mentioned above. It will take me several more months to gather all the data I have and maybe draw some conclusions but I will post whatever I find. I’m trying to make the best of a bad situation. Many of the froglets I get have somewhat functional front legs, but they all have fully functioning back legs. Here is a link to a picture of a normal and a spindly tad in the last stages of metamorphoses. They will eat (or at least ours can) for a couple months but we usually euthanize them within a couple weeks of morphing into froglets, because some do not eat at all.
http://www.martin-spot.com/image_pages/ ... rison.html

Hope this helps!
Ed
 

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I think water is also an issue, my friend always has spindly issues when the city changes what it puts in the water, he finds the right additives and gets froglets without spindly for awhile until the water is changed again. I use springwater, and I have never had any problems with spindly, he has too many tadpoles to buy springwater though.
 

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I am also battling SLS with my Auratus. I was very interested in Ed's suggstions, and I was hoping you could expand your reasoning for the following: "use larger containers to rear the tads (a quart or larger) and do not change the water". The other suggestions I have heard in one form or another, but these caught me by suprise. I would love more insight on this topic!!
 

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...I am using aged Brita (water filter) water. I figured it would filter out the heavy metals and aging it would eliminate the chlorine. I do live in a city where the drinking water is good, but I wonder....
 

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Kyle it may be your water. I know in my city there is always something new in the water that is causing problems. A red eye breeder here lost $60,000 in red eye tads due to a water change, and a aquarium here had all there fish die from a new additive in the water. On a sidenote, what do you think the water is doing to humans? The first thing they said when they added chloramines, was to treat fish, dog, and cat water. Its scary when you think about it. Thats why I always use springwater, and I havent had a spindly froglet, and I have had a lot of froglets come out of the water.
 

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quart or larger

This has been used by a number of people to either resolve or prevent spindly leg. The first person I heard really champion this method was a gentleman names Lars on frognet.
The method is simple and easy to use. He places the tads in a larger container filled most of the way with water (I believe usually single tads) .
The container and tad is under a light source so that algae grows on the sides of the container. The tads are fed lightly and allowed to graze on the algae and aufwuchs. The containers are topped off and are not changed even between tads unless there is a death when the container is scrubbed and sterilized before replacing it in the system.
All I can say is that this method has worked for other people. I pulled alot of the spindly leg info together for a journal that Tracy Hicks is going to publish so that is how I knew of all of the methods off the top of my head.
Ed
 

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Ed,

That is an interesting method. I am curious- he doesn't have any water changes at all? I mean, tads put out a lot of urea and other waste products into the water. I don't think that the algae could use up this waste at the same rate that the tad is producing it. What size containers was he using?

Justin
 

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i have lost way to many tads to even think on it. i use ice mountain water with blackwater extract in ball jars and eds fly cups. i want to change to something new but cant figure out what.
 

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Jace King,

What are you feeding your tads? How often? How often are you supplementing with vitamins and calcium for your adults?

Justin
 

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I feed my tads a combo of Tadpole powder (edsflymeatinc.com), Sera Micron Stage 1 newborn fry food (52.1% protein), and Tetra's Spirulina enhanced fish flakes. I currently change the water and feed daily. I do not introduce the fish flake until the rear legs emerge (no reason, I just figure the small powder is better for the smaller tads).
 

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I can outline for you how, when I had spindly leg with a group of my frogs, I was able to resolve the problem. I had a trio of wc Panamanian D. auratus. The first year they breed fine, the second I started getting spindly-leg and by the end of the second year they all had spindly-leg. The following year started out just as bad, but then someone mentioned that they used vitamins to supplement their frogs (I never had, but that was really early in the hobby). I started supplementing the adults with Nekton beta and Nekton E and in a little over a month (in addition to the three months to get froglets) the problem disappeared and I've had virtually no problems since. I used many different containers, the smallest being pint mason jars, different food, different water and the problem hasn't resurfaced. This lead me to believe that the main problem lies with the adults. The other factors may bring it out to some extent, but the main part of the problem was with the adult breeders. Healthy adults produced healthy tadpoles.

Best,

Chuck
 

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I completely agree with you, I personaly feel that you have to start with healthy adults to begin to address the problem. I should have mentioned before that I dust my ff's with DENDROCARE with every feeding.
 

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But I have had some come out fine...

Here is what I do right now and the couple of things I have changed:
-tap water teated with Aquarium safe also sits for a week before used.
-feed the standard 50:50 algae mix
-water changes weekly
-adults used to get vitamins 2-3 times a week (Herptivite:Rep-Cal)

What I have changed so far:
-adults get vitamins every day
-feeding tads aglae and high quality fish food
-tad containers get small leaf pieces

So far I can not tell if it is helping it is too early, but I may look for some other water treatment stuff.

I bought a testing kit from Lowes and tested our local water (columbus city water) and it tested very well. Very low levels off all the major things.

geckguy said:
Kyle it may be your water. I know in my city there is always something new in the water that is causing problems. A red eye breeder here lost $60,000 in red eye tads due to a water change, and a aquarium here had all there fish die from a new additive in the water. On a sidenote, what do you think the water is doing to humans? The first thing they said when they added chloramines, was to treat fish, dog, and cat water. Its scary when you think about it. Thats why I always use springwater, and I havent had a spindly froglet, and I have had a lot of froglets come out of the water.
 
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