[stu&shaz]

Some very lucky folks will be getting some of the wikiri Paru,so i would be greatful if you would be so kind as to show me how you intend to home them,every detail I would be gracious for!!!! I'm after the detail behind the logic of why this plant is here why you have chosen that brom,in short i want to know every thing that drove you to your discissions,and yes your words will be dwelt on thought about and pondered,Not just the planting of course i want to know everything on how you will set up your tank,and utterly everything else as well
educate me please
thanks for any help as always in advance
regards
Stu

 

[stu&shaz]

Could anybody tell me why there are no replies to this,please.I feel i have missed something,i thought that with the excitment of some of the large oophaga comming into the hobby and under the circumstances of how they are comming in those who are fortunate enough would welcome dicussion on how they are setting up and why,and also want to share this with guys whom want to learn.
thankyou
regards
Stu

 

[ZookeeperDoug]

I think some of the people who mught be getting them might want to fly under the radar for a while so they are not bombarded with PMs and emails asking for offspring. These animals have yet to arrive as I understand it, so perhaps people haven't yet completed their vivariums. It could be too that not a lot is known about these frogs yet and that a certain amount of experimentation may be in order to find out what works well and why.

Be patient, I'm sure as these wonderful animals enter the hobby we'll learn all about them in due time. From what I've gathered, the people who are getting them are long time hobbiests with years of experience and I'm sure that they will share with us in due time.

 

[EricM]

One of the best resources to check out is Rob Melancon's site, Robbster.com, there is some good info on his experiences keeping obligates.

My histo tanks are set up pretty much like the other dart tanks, except they have bromeliads for rearing. I have not tried to raise histos with artificial rearing canisters yet but others have been successful doing so.

Differant populations of sylvatica/histos are differant sizes like pumilio, and on average they are double or a bit more larger than pumilio. Depending on how much room you have I would start with a 30 gallon tank and bigger if possible, although I've seen them successfully bred in 10 gallons by very accomplished froggers (the current dogma of the hobby would find this foolhardy). I've kept them in groups, trios and pairs. Probably the best scenario is a pair, but I've known of successful trios in 1.2 and 2.1 with histrionicus in the same collection with all other factors seemingly the same.

I have observed the breeding male in the most prolific pair totally ignore two offspring that grew to about 4-5 months old and they were relocated to a tank of their own. The next batch of two that were raised one was violently attacked at about the same age of 4-5 months old. I've seen male pumilio chase juvies and ignore others which suggests the males know other young males before we keepers can sex them. I think this is the case with this scenario as the two older ones were both females.

When I say prolific, it's really a misnomer in comparison to other darts. I think the best year the best pair had was 8 froglets past 5 months. Some of the other pairs only morph out a froglet or two every other year. I don't push them either so a keeper with a puppymill stategy may get more production.

There haven't been enough of these frogs in numbers to experiment too much and the health of the founder frogs hasn't been the best either. How would you feel after two days in a marlboro box?

With a better source for frogs in good health this should turn out to be a good infusion for the hobby, things are looking good for the new imports, as long as the older lines don't fade away.

some thoughts, I will post some full tank pics in the next few weeks, need to clean some glass, it will be most unremarkable but give you an idea.

first pic is a juvie exploring the world beyond the brom
second pic is terrible but newly morphed froglet with male
third pic is a 5-6 month old female

ERic

 

[ChrisK]

Yeah there aren't any in the hobby yet, but look at my San Lorenzo tank that you probably saw many times since I get pretty good results so far from them in there.

 

[stu&shaz]

I think some of the people who mught be getting them might want to fly under the radar for a while so they are not bombarded with PMs and emails asking for offspring. These animals have yet to arrive as I understand it, so perhaps people haven't yet completed their vivariums. It could be too that not a lot is known about these frogs yet and that a certain amount of experimentation may be in order to find out what works well and why.

Be patient, I'm sure as these wonderful animals enter the hobby we'll learn all about them in due time. From what I've gathered, the people who are getting them are long time hobbiests with years of experience and I'm sure that they will share with us in due time.

First doug thanks for the imput happy new year,and hi.I do appreciate what your saying having been bombarded similarly in the past,with my work with birds,although they had to find me first as i was not interweb contactable,but find me they did.Thanks for openng my eyes to this, yeah sometimes i guess my total enthusiasm for these species gets the better of me,i just thought it would be so cool for these long standing hobbyests to open the door to other obsessives like me,whom are grafting away towards having the ability,to do right by these as you'll note there was a pm option in the original post.
I guess waiting a month or so to bump this, in my case, reaks of patience,it
was pretty hard. But then waiting nearly 2 yrs to keep some leucs,so we hit the ground running was way harder.But unless something awful happens we won't be going anywhere so wait we will,
thanks for the help
Stu

 

[stu&shaz]

One of the best resources to check out is Rob Melancon's site, Robbster.com, there is some good info on his experiences keeping obligates.

My histo tanks are set up pretty much like the other dart tanks, except they have bromeliads for rearing. I have not tried to raise histos with artificial rearing canisters yet but others have been successful doing so.

Differant populations of sylvatica/histos are differant sizes like pumilio, and on average they are double or a bit more larger than pumilio. Depending on how much room you have I would start with a 30 gallon tank and bigger if possible, although I've seen them successfully bred in 10 gallons by very accomplished froggers (the current dogma of the hobby would find this foolhardy). I've kept them in groups, trios and pairs. Probably the best scenario is a pair, but I've known of successful trios in 1.2 and 2.1 with histrionicus in the same collection with all other factors seemingly the same.

I have observed the breeding male in the most prolific pair totally ignore two offspring that grew to about 4-5 months old and they were relocated to a tank of their own. The next batch of two that were raised one was violently attacked at about the same age of 4-5 months old. I've seen male pumilio chase juvies and ignore others which suggests the males know other young males before we keepers can sex them. I think this is the case with this scenario as the two older ones were both females.

When I say prolific, it's really a misnomer in comparison to other darts. I think the best year the best pair had was 8 froglets past 5 months. Some of the other pairs only morph out a froglet or two every other year. I don't push them either so a keeper with a puppymill stategy may get more production.

There haven't been enough of these frogs in numbers to experiment too much and the health of the founder frogs hasn't been the best either. How would you feel after two days in a marlboro box?

With a better source for frogs in good health this should turn out to be a good infusion for the hobby, things are looking good for the new imports, as long as the older lines don't fade away.

some thoughts, I will post some full tank pics in the next few weeks, need to clean some glass, it will be most unremarkable but give you an idea.

first pic is a juvie exploring the world beyond the brom
second pic is terrible but newly morphed froglet with male
third pic is a 5-6 month old female

ERic

Hello Eric,again Hi and again happy new year to you.Eric thankyou for the effort that went into that post,there is much to be dwelled on there from the horror of the marleboro to the awareness of an adult male being aware that there is a potientail rival in his midst.'tis only right i should say cheers for the insight,thankyou sir!
I don't want to puppy mill anything,by the same token when eventually i feel we are ready i want the abilitly to breed them as best is possible.It will always be our goal, to keep well, breed well, spread them about,and put something back,whatever the species.

I have some awareness of size as we have had the oppurtunity to purchase red heads,on which we passed(not ready to do right be 'em) and see red bullseye and white foot fairly often.But although the same group of frogs i'll always be searching for why this morph should be housed in this way and why that in another,those details are intrinsick (spelling) to why i posted this:I'm questing for that detail.
However unremarkable you think your vivs are please when you have the time show them to us,i can wait but as above it wont be easy.
I desparately don't want to see any of the older lines fade Eric,but one has to rely on others for this,but it can't be bad that our hobby will be blessed with frogs coming in under the circumstances as these paru
regards
Stu

 

[stu&shaz]

Yeah there aren't any in the hobby yet, but look at my San Lorenzo tank that you probably saw many times since I get pretty good results so far from them in there.

G'day Chris,how are ya,happy new year!! Yeah you know damn well i've studied what you do, and how much i think of it....tell me how you would set up differently for these and why?
You know that guy that sits behind ya at a gig mate hitting stuff yeah that pain called a drummer thats moi,chris As a total side note could you give me alink to what you do music wise,you can do a pm if necessary,have the best new year
regards
Stu

 

[ChrisK]

You too man, I guess I woulda made it front opening for easier access, some more larger leafed philo type plants for more climbing area and visual barriers, I'm glad I use the larger tanks though since all my histrionicus group frogs seem to raise 3-4 at a time usually and I like to keep them in the tank as long as possible so the size minimizes crowding, I think the Turface and clay substrate helps since it's permanent and good for the microfauna, and I think a really prolific and active form of woodlice has helped my success with all the egg feeders.
So you're one of those loud guys who hangs out with the real musicians huh? Jk Yeah I'll pm some stuff when I get to a pc (on the mobile now).

 

[stu&shaz]

You too man, I guess I woulda made it front opening for easier access, some more larger leafed philo type plants for more climbing area and visual barriers, I'm glad I use the larger tanks though since all my histrionicus group frogs seem to raise 3-4 at a time usually and I like to keep them in the tank as long as possible so the size minimizes crowding, I think the Turface and clay substrate helps since it's permanent and good for the microfauna, and I think a really prolific and active form of woodlice has helped my success with all the egg feeders.
So you're one of those loud guys who hangs out with the real musicians huh? Jk Yeah I'll pm some stuff when I get to a pc (on the mobile now).

yeah thats me,ya know when i'm at the door 'cause the knock speeds up
i built a little studio (old school big ol mackie 8bus bla bla) here write play keys(lol like a drummer) and shout abit too occassionally,anyway back to these fascinating frogs.
Chris,couple of little gems there,and not the front opening doors,seriously the iso,could you tell me species or show me a pic,please.We have a little fastmoving grey i think from Peru is it to this you refer? I'm still building numbers of this,but have huge stocks of dwarf white but they are not so active i guess.All our vivs are rammed with dwarf white before any frogs get there,but we are yet to use any or the fast greys,we also are slowly stocking with giant orange,as the woods get big enough to not be eaten by frogs mainly, there, following Doug's(pummillio) lead.
Also the large leafed plants,now is that as barriers betwixt adults or the kids?
Oh Chris what does Turface mean? i've never seen the word before,
thankyou for the help
Stu

 

[ChrisK]

Turface is baseball infield conditioner, basically clay in small particles, it's extremely cheap, so a search for "turface" and "infield conditioner" on here and you'll see lots of examples of it.
Isos that worked out the best for me are the dwarf gray temperate, I heard the dwarf purples are just as good in the tanks, I didn't get as much luck with those "fast" ones, here's a pic of one of my Colons, they're a normal to small sized pum, all around it you can see the isopod offspring of different sizes, the smallest are at least as small as springtails, I think when they're established they're unbeatable, I'm currently tank raising an escudo froglet in a tank that has nemerteans so there's no springtail population in it, but these are definitely well established in there (they like tree fern backgrounds as well), I'm not adding any springtails and the froglet is growing, wouldn't recommend it though unless you know they're as established as mine are:

 

[frogparty]

I'm really noticing that the Purple Isopods adapt really well to tank life. I like those dwarf grey a lot too, and notice that both establish better than the dwarf whites do. I like to shove pieces of food under leaf litter for them. The turface/ clay substrate really lets these guys move well through the substrate and you can see clay powder on their exoskeletons when they emerge. I should have switched to clay or turface long ago. Oh well, good reason to redo some vivs I guess

 

[stu&shaz]

Turface is baseball infield conditioner, basically clay in small particles, it's extremely cheap, so a search for "turface" and "infield conditioner" on here and you'll see lots of examples of it.
Isos that worked out the best for me are the dwarf gray temperate, I heard the dwarf purples are just as good in the tanks, I didn't get as much luck with those "fast" ones, here's a pic of one of my Colons, they're a normal to small sized pum, all around it you can see the isopod offspring of different sizes, the smallest are at least as small as springtails, I think when they're established they're unbeatable, I'm currently tank raising an escudo froglet in a tank that has nemerteans so there's no springtail population in it, but these are definitely well established in there (they like tree fern backgrounds as well), I'm not adding any springtails and the froglet is growing, wouldn't recommend it though unless you know they're as established as mine are:

thanks for turface Chris,the lack of baseball here might scupper this,but the time is much appreciated and i'm almost hestiant to say your colon is stunning mate
I strugle to establish stable strong springtail populations Chris in viv,but have no shortage in cultures,on the otherhand i have vivs that have so many dwarf white it's silly,i actually removed a couple of handfuls from the summersi before they went in as i was concearned that the frogs might get no peace,will dwarf white do the job or are they not active enough?,i don't know of a small grey here ....YET other than what we have.The cork plates i use are being munched by the iso,the methods we are using right or wrong are loved by dwarf white thats for sure.
Much thanks
Stu

 

[stu&shaz]

I'm really noticing that the Purple Isopods adapt really well to tank life. I like those dwarf grey a lot too, and notice that both establish better than the dwarf whites do. I like to shove pieces of food under leaf litter for them. The turface/ clay substrate really lets these guys move well through the substrate and you can see clay powder on their exoskeletons when they emerge. I should have switched to clay or turface long ago. Oh well, good reason to redo some vivs I guess

As above lets hope that these will do as well for us as the dwarf white,it always amazes me how one thing works for one person in this and another method for someone else
Stu

 

[frogparty]

Don't get me wrong, the dwarf whites work fine. I just find other species to be faster

 

[cbreon]

Don't get me wrong, the dwarf whites work fine. I just find other species to be faster

Agreed Frogparty, dwarf whites will work fine, but purples seem to multiply and thrive the quickest for me too.

I checked out turfaces website and there are several different grades, which one are you guys using??

 

[stu&shaz]

Don't get me wrong, the dwarf whites work fine. I just find other species to be faster

thanks for clearing that one up for me,just a silly thing i culture all our dwarf white on top of the racks,literally just below the ceiling so they actually have all the heat in the room plus the heat from the lights directly underneath them,since we have done this their productivity has gone ballistic,i'm guessing high 70's most of the time,maybe that is key to getting these to breed faster.Before that i had the same issues with them.
Dude or due to past indiscressions sis whats your name?
Stu

 

[cbreon]

Turface is baseball infield conditioner, basically clay in small particles, it's extremely cheap, so a search for "turface" and "infield conditioner" on here and you'll see lots of examples of it.
Isos that worked out the best for me are the dwarf gray temperate, I heard the dwarf purples are just as good in the tanks, I didn't get as much luck with those "fast" ones, here's a pic of one of my Colons, they're a normal to small sized pum, all around it you can see the isopod offspring of different sizes, the smallest are at least as small as springtails, I think when they're established they're unbeatable, I'm currently tank raising an escudo froglet in a tank that has nemerteans so there's no springtail population in it, but these are definitely well established in there (they like tree fern backgrounds as well), I'm not adding any springtails and the froglet is growing, wouldn't recommend it though unless you know they're as established as mine are:

Sorry to repeat my question, but which turface is everyone using?

Where do you get a single bag, all I am seeing are pallet prices?

Also, I would assume that you use it with a soil mix?

 

[zBrinks]

Check out your local landscaping supply type place. I always ask for "Turface infield conditioner". A 50lb bag runs me $20.

 

[fieldnstream]

Sorry to repeat my question, but which turface is everyone using?

Where do you get a single bag, all I am seeing are pallet prices?

Also, I would assume that you use it with a soil mix?

Also check irrigation suppliers...its like $8 for a 50lb bag of the MVP around here.