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I had recived some "new blood" w.c. tincs from an importer in Florida..When I opened up the box you could see that something was wrong...Frog-cicles..Barely moving,I thought that no way were these guys going to survive!!! I e-mailed the the person i got them from, He told me that when he sent them from FL. that it was 85 degrees there and he didn't want to kill them by adding type of heat pack or anything!!!??? Here now in San Diego it was in the 50s I just couldn't imagane what it was like on the plane ride here... It's been 2 days now and they are now eating and appear to becoming more active. I have delt with Chameleons for the last 15 years and know that you need to keep your animal at a modest temp when shipping..I have also been raising dart frogs for a few years but never done any shipping , only small amounts of wholesale to the local shops..SOOOO who out there could give me some advice on the dos and donts of shipping frogs...I have recived just a few shipments here and they have used heat pacs or phase 22..What works best?
 

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I'll be shipping frogs for the first time, soon. This is a tricky time of year, imo. Already too hot in some places while still too cool in others. I'd love to hear how you deal with a trip that might be hot on one end but cold on the other.

In my situation, it will likely be hot on both ends, during the day, but night time still gets chilly.
 

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Phase 22 packs work wonders at keeping frogs at somewhat a consistent temp.
 

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I just shipped from chicago to north carolina and used one phase 22 and one heat pack. No frozen frogs.
 

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The best thing to do is get a probe thermometer with a high/low function and do some "tests" to see what works best for you.

What I like are those throw away styrofoam coolers. If you can find one that will fit inside of your shipping box. This is the best rig IMO. Frogs with pant cuttings into a deli cup. The deli cup and some phase 22 panels into a styro cooler and the styro cooler into shipping box that is lined with more styrofoam. Heat/Cold packs only if necessary. My goal is always to try to keep temps stable and not to use heat or cold packs to try to change the temps.

I can not find the thread now but someone made graphs of the temps inside of their shipping box when was in the 30s outside to test phase 22 panels.
 

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Like I explained, I would rather err on the cool side than anything when shipping Frogs. They would have been dead before they left Florida if I were to put a heatpack in with them. How do I know? Because I cooked Frogs by doing so a few days before - From Florida to California in the same temperature range........Tincs and many other "Tropical" Frogs can take temps down into the 40's for short durations and bounce right back......

This time of year is always a transitional time between using and not using Heatpacks - The Flight to Memphis doesn't leave Florida untill 11pm, so they sit 6-7 hours in warm temps, coupled with a heatpack and the temps inside the box get dangerous.......
 

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I think this may be the thread you are talking about: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/16577-better-gel-shipping-tested.html
I've only shipped frogs once but I am fortunate enough to have a family member who gets insulated styrofoam boxes that fit inside the cardboard boxes tightly along with the gel packs which are used for shipping vaccines and other medicines so I sometimes have access to the good shipping supplies whenever they come in.
Bryan
 
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Discussion Starter #8
Like I explained, I would rather err on the cool side than anything when shipping Frogs. They would have been dead before they left Florida if I were to put a heatpack in with them. How do I know? Because I cooked Frogs by doing so a few days before - From Florida to California in the same temperature range........Tincs and many other "Tropical" Frogs can take temps down into the 40's for short durations and bounce right back......

This time of year is always a transitional time between using and not using Heatpacks - The Flight to Memphis doesn't leave Florida untill 11pm, so they sit 6-7 hours in warm temps, coupled with a heatpack and the temps inside the box get dangerous.......
And like I said"I understand" I'm not mad . I was just a little concerned about the frogs...I hope that you " Eric" got my e-mail stating that they were doing better and eating.. I am very happy with my new tincs!!!
 

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A Phase 22 pack is really necessary for shipping in cold weather. If you want to know, I can tell you how to use it. Otherwise you could cause the frogs to die or suffer thermal damage to their organs or limbs from the extreme cold, which could shorten their life or impair it. It is not safe to ship darts in cold weather without any sort of temp. stabilizer.

Glad to hear the frogs seem fine.
 

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I would love an explanation of how to use them properly.

David

A Phase 22 pack is really necessary for shipping in cold weather. If you want to know, I can tell you how to use it. Otherwise you could cause the frogs to die or suffer thermal damage to their organs or limbs from the extreme cold, which could shorten their life or impair it. It is not safe to ship darts in cold weather without any sort of temp. stabilizer.

Glad to hear the frogs seem fine.
 

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I would love an explanation of how to use them properly.

David
This rudimentary explanation is an amalgamation from multiple threads here on DB and other forums as well as limited personal experience.

The Phase 22 material changes phase just above 70 degrees, from a solid to a liquid. In my experience, as it is slow to change even above this temperature, when preparing for shipping in cold weather it needs coaxing. I do this by heating water in the microwave to lukewarm (not hot) temperature, and placing the Phase 22/Cryopak inside. (*Note--if the pack is frozen do NOT do this or it may burst on you. Allow it to thaw to room temps overnight beforehand if it is frozen. Also, never put the pack in the microwave.) This temperature acclimation must be done gradually to avoid bursting of the material, which is not good to get on your body.
After several repetitions of gradually making the water warmer over the course of a few hours and reinserting the pack every time, the Phase 22 pack 'feels just barely warm' in my hands, which means it is near 85 degrees. If, after you hold it in your hands, it does not feel 'lukewarm' but instead 'hot', do not put in the shipping box until it feels 'lukewarm' again. This is also part of the need to heat it gradually and avoid overheating so that you do not have to wait for it to cool again or risk it bursting its package. If it begins to swell it is getting too hot, or you are heating it too quickly.

I put it in the bottom of my shipping box as I would with a cool pack, cover it with tightly-wadded newsprint and a thin layer of styrofoam to separate it from the frogs. Then above it, I add another layer of tightly-wadded paper and the frogs themselves. Note the entire box is lined with 1/2-inch styrofoam and any holes are filled in to avoid heat loss.

I shipped three thumbnails to Illinois a couple weeks ago and they arrived, to the best of my knowledge, stress-free and active. Upon arrival, temps average around 65-70 degrees. I do not ship when nighttime temps along the route are under freezing, though it gets that cold in the plane's hold temporarily.

Hope that helps.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Great info...thanks
 

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Thanks! I always like to hear the many different ways people ship frogs and your's appears sound.

David

This rudimentary explanation is an amalgamation from multiple threads here on DB and other forums as well as limited personal experience.

The Phase 22 material changes phase just above 70 degrees, from a solid to a liquid. In my experience, as it is slow to change even above this temperature, when preparing for shipping in cold weather it needs coaxing. I do this by heating water in the microwave to lukewarm (not hot) temperature, and placing the Phase 22/Cryopak inside. (*Note--if the pack is frozen do NOT do this or it may burst on you. Allow it to thaw to room temps overnight beforehand if it is frozen. Also, never put the pack in the microwave.) This temperature acclimation must be done gradually to avoid bursting of the material, which is not good to get on your body.
After several repetitions of gradually making the water warmer over the course of a few hours and reinserting the pack every time, the Phase 22 pack 'feels just barely warm' in my hands, which means it is near 85 degrees. If, after you hold it in your hands, it does not feel 'lukewarm' but instead 'hot', do not put in the shipping box until it feels 'lukewarm' again. This is also part of the need to heat it gradually and avoid overheating so that you do not have to wait for it to cool again or risk it bursting its package. If it begins to swell it is getting too hot, or you are heating it too quickly.

I put it in the bottom of my shipping box as I would with a cool pack, cover it with tightly-wadded newsprint and a thin layer of styrofoam to separate it from the frogs. Then above it, I add another layer of tightly-wadded paper and the frogs themselves. Note the entire box is lined with 1/2-inch styrofoam and any holes are filled in to avoid heat loss.

I shipped three thumbnails to Illinois a couple weeks ago and they arrived, to the best of my knowledge, stress-free and active. Upon arrival, temps average around 65-70 degrees. I do not ship when nighttime temps along the route are under freezing, though it gets that cold in the plane's hold temporarily.

Hope that helps.
 
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