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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello everyone. This is my 2nd attempt at raising dart frogs. I tried last year around the same time but lost my grandma at that time so I got out of it rather quickly. Just got into it again about a month ago and was raising up some Pena Blanca tadpoles from an online seller. Not sure if i'm allowed to mention the name so I wont but anyway I had some Blue azureus and pena blanca's last year before my grandma so i'm kinda familiar with what they look like as babies. I got 5 of them out of the water so far and 4 of them all look like the Pena Blancas I had last year. One of them looks like it has blue spots and looks identical to the baby blue azureus that I had last year. Is it possible this seller sent me the wrong tadpole? I contacted the seller but they didn't respond yet. Maybe I'm wrong but this froglet sure looks different than the others. Perhaps some one with a good eye could tell me if i'm wrong or not. Thanks in advance
Plant Flower Leaf Terrestrial plant Insect
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and I look forward to continuing my endeavor in the hobby.
 

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Not to completely derail this thread but this kind of doubt is only one reason amongst several not to buy (or sell) tadpoles.

This seems to be a common practice in the USA and lately I keep having people contact me here in Canada asking me to sell them tadpoles.

I'm of the opinion that it's a terrible idea on all sides, as it has the potential to devalue the animals, and leaves the buyer no reliable indicator that they're (a) getting what they paid for and (b) any way of telling if the parents were healthy enough to produce strong offspring. A normal looking tadpole can produce a weak froglet.

It looks like a cash grab from high volume sellers and often but not always nickel-and-diming from buyers looking to save a few dollars. These animals are labour intensive to raise correctly and live many years, they're worth paying for. I'm not saying this in an attempt to "maintain profits" -- I'm a hobbyist not a business and don't rely on frogs for income.

I get that raising tadpoles is interesting, but I don't recommend it for beginners as too many things can go wrong, and freshly morphed froglets are a lot more delicate and potentially problematic than well-started frogs at least 3-4 months out-of-water.

Good luck with your frogs and enjoy the hobby :) -- but maybe something to think about moving forward.
 

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Not to completely derail this thread but this kind of doubt is only one reason amongst several not to buy (or sell) tadpoles.

This seems to be a common practice in the USA and lately I keep having people contact me here in Canada asking me to sell them tadpoles.

I'm of the opinion that it's a terrible idea on all sides, as it has the potential to devalue the animals, and leaves the buyer no reliable indicator that they're (a) getting what they paid for and (b) any way of telling if they parents were healthy enough to produce strong offspring. A normal looking tadpole can produce a weak froglet.

It looks like a cash grab from high volume sellers and often but not always nickel-and-diming from buyers looking to save a few dollars. These animals are labour intensive to raise correctly and live many years, they're worth paying for. I'm not saying this in an attempt to "maintain profits" -- I'm a hobbyist not a business and don't rely on frogs for income.

I get that raising tadpoles is interesting, but I don't recommend it for beginners as too many things can go wrong, and freshly morphed froglets are a lot more delicate and potentially problematic than well-started frogs at least 3-4 months out-of-water.

Good luck with your frogs and enjoy the hobby :) -- but maybe something to think about moving forward.
To add to this, most of the really good breeders don't sell tadpoles. I would suggest if they do, they aren't who you want to be buying from.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Not to completely derail this thread but this kind of doubt is only one reason amongst several not to buy (or sell) tadpoles.

This seems to be a common practice in the USA and lately I keep having people contact me here in Canada asking me to sell them tadpoles.

I'm of the opinion that it's a terrible idea on all sides, as it has the potential to devalue the animals, and leaves the buyer no reliable indicator that they're (a) getting what they paid for and (b) any way of telling if they parents were healthy enough to produce strong offspring. A normal looking tadpole can produce a weak froglet.

It looks like a cash grab from high volume sellers and often but not always nickel-and-diming from buyers looking to save a few dollars. These animals are labour intensive to raise correctly and live many years, they're worth paying for. I'm not saying this in an attempt to "maintain profits" -- I'm a hobbyist not a business and don't rely on frogs for income.

I get that raising tadpoles is interesting, but I don't recommend it for beginners as too many things can go wrong, and freshly morphed froglets are a lot more delicate and potentially problematic than well-started frogs at least 3-4 months out-of-water.

Good luck with your frogs and enjoy the hobby :) -- but maybe something to think about moving forward.
I appreciate your response and I don't think the seller had any malicious intent. I spoke to him before purchase and he was one of the nicest people I spoke to about purchasing frogs and tadpoles from. I also got a couple of froglets from him and they were very healthy. He actually got back to me and offered his apologies and even let me know what species it was. Even offered to send me a brand new froglet and pay for return shipping of the wrong one. I was aware of the risks of raising tadpoles before I purchased and speaking of, I just had one of the tadpoles come out of the water last night with only 1 toe on each back leg, not quite sure what to do about that yet.
 

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It's not that sellers are necessarily 'malicious'. Some are misguided, others are inexperienced, and others ... their good intentions get eclipsed by dollar signs.

I don't worry about motives, I worry about outcomes.

Now sometimes tadpoles develop abnormally, it happens. But you wouldn't have been in this position if you had bought frogs of an appropriate age. I have a frog with skeletal deformities (otherwise apparently healthy and normal) that I'll keep forever without breeding. Had I sold him as a tadpole he'd be the buyer's problem, not mine.

Anyway, this is about the general practice of selling tads, not your choices.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I worry about motive more than outcome, A seller who raises frogs as quickly as they can without a care in the world could still raise healthy froglets and sell them to unknowing customers. The seller admitted that there was a mistake some where down the line and that the tadpole got mixed up, even offered to pay in full for the shipping of a new froglet and have the old one shipped back. On the other side of that. A seller who follows everything by the books and raises healthy froglets the majority of the time will eventually run into an issue some where some how. The motivation behind what they are doing is what matters for me. I don't see anyone at fault here. I knew what I was getting into when I purchased tadpoles and I chose to do it anyway because I enjoy watching things grow throughout their entire life cycle. I would not hesitate to purchase tadpoles again, despite this one experience. Anyway, I appreciate the advice and help. Thank you.
 

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I worry about motive more than outcome, A seller who raises frogs as quickly as they can without a care in the world could still raise healthy froglets and sell them to unknowing customers. The seller admitted that there was a mistake some where down the line and that the tadpole got mixed up, even offered to pay in full for the shipping of a new froglet and have the old one shipped back. On the other side of that. A seller who follows everything by the books and raises healthy froglets the majority of the time will eventually run into an issue some where some how. The motivation behind what they are doing is what matters for me. I don't see anyone at fault here. I knew what I was getting into when I purchased tadpoles and I chose to do it anyway because I enjoy watching things grow throughout their entire life cycle. I would not hesitate to purchase tadpoles again, despite this one experience. Anyway, I appreciate the advice and help. Thank you.
The problem here is that you may have ended up with mislabeled tadpoles, then you would have misidentified the frogs. If you then had bred them, you would have sold or given away misidentified frogs. It's a problem in the hobby, whether intended or not. If you want to watch the lifecycle, then get a pair of frogs and watch the entire thing: courting, egg laying, tadpole disposition, metamorphosis and froglet growth. Much more rewarding!

Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I understand what you are saying, but had the tadpoles been mislabeled then it would have eventually come to light just like the blue one in my original post did. Now if we are talking about selling a tadpole of a similar looking morph as another, well then that same thing could just as easily happen with frogs or froglets.
 

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Now if we are talking about selling a tadpole of a similar looking morph as another, well then that same thing could just as easily happen with frogs or froglets.
No, not nearly as easily.

No one can tell from a casual glance which tad is which morph (or even in many cases which species, not from a fuzzy photo on the internet); it is all in the cup labeling, proper place on the shelf, etc. But animals with distinguishing features, even if those features are not enough for even a knowledgable observer to conclusively identify to morph, can be told apart by the person who bred and raised those particular animals. After looking at the same 100 animals every day or two, even a quick glance while feeding, the breeder can tell -- intuitively, really -- when something is out of order, when no one else could.

A real example, from frequent experience: I have about 75 leopard gecko hatchlings right now, and there isn't anyone who could come in and ID which is which morph. Sure, many could be ID'ed pretty close, but there are a bunch that are certain to be mixed up (all the subspecies, and normal hobby lines, and often snows, look interchangeable in many cases). But if two -- that in a criminal lineup could go either way on identification even if a person was given a short list of morphs to choose from -- got mixed up, I could sort them easily since I know those animals ("the one with that spot is a Snow even though it looks more like an Eclipse", or whatever little tidbits a breeder's brain latches on to), and I know how my lines of those animals look.

There is a lot of misidentification in herp hobbies lately, and it is increasing, so this is a pretty big deal to serious keepers.
 

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Personally, I still find it remarkable that it's even possible, let alone reliable, to ship tadpoles, and this is coming from a guy whose background is largely in aquariums and knows about how fish shipping works. Idk, they just seem so fragile, and I'd rather spend a bit extra to get an established frog I can be more confident is going to survive. Plus, raising my own tadpoles successfully seems like it'd be even more rewarding than raising one I bought from a seller- they're like "grandchildren" in a way.
 

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I don't want to get in a long debate since I've made my views pretty clear, but I'll agree with those who have posted about actually raising and breeding the frogs instead of buying tadpoles: more rewarding, allows a glimpse at the full life cycle and natural behaviour. There's really no comparison, in my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I did not want to debate either. I mainly just wanted to know if anyone could identify the morph of frog but the seller already got back to me about that. Personally, I still don't share your opinions about purchasing tadpoles but I do respect it, and just because we don't agree, doesn't mean we should have any hard feelings in the future.
 
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