[EvilLost]

Hey all,

PHOTOS HERE: https://picasaweb.google.com/Mani.Arabi/PDFs?authkey=Gv1sRgCP6EpM2siruNqQE#

I rescued a trio of frogs a little while back and they are my first PDFs. I did not get any other info on them....but I have also been following these boards for awhile.

Anyway, long story short: I have been feeding them fruit flies (D.Mela) and springtails for the past few weeks. Their tank was open-screen top (one of the tall exo-terra with the opening door and front vent) so I covered it with plastic wrap (there is still a front vent) and spray it lightly daily. Humidity is ~80-90% and temps ride right around 74-78.

For the past few days I have been feeding exclusively springtails (my D.Mela culture died and I don't have my next batch just yet). Is it ok to feed them springtails exclusively? They are so easy to culture and the frogs are devouring them. Not the fruit flies are hard but the springtails literally take no effort...also, I am not sure how often to feed but I basically have been putting in more springtails about every other day when I see no more in the tank.

Anyway, the frogs have been active, eating, and seemingly healthy (but as I said its my first set of frogs so I don't have much to base it off). There are 2 orange frogs and 1 green frog (separate tanks). The orange frogs are EXTREMELY active and not very shy at all. The green frog is always, always hiding and I see him at best once a week.


So, few questions:
1) Can you guys ID my frogs? (pics attached) sizewise they are about the size of my thumbnail
-species? locale (if applicable)? SEXES?
2) Today, I saw the larger one trying to mount the smaller one (but the smaller one wasn't having any of that!) I have NOT heard any kind of calling. I watched them for a good while and it was very clear the larger one continuously chased the smaller one around trying to mount it and the smaller one would brush him away.

I'm assuming this means my larger frog is a male. Does this mean my smaller frog is female? Or could I have 2 males? (Ie would the larger male just try to mount a smaller male if noone else is around?) How else could I tell their sexes?

3) Any general husbandry comments appreciated. I'm well familiar with exotics, just new to the frogs.

4) If they are mating, can anyone direct me to a thread/info on what to look out and how to proceed? I have broms in their enclosure but I'm not sure what to look for? And how noticeable would the calling be? Is it possible I simply haven't heard it? (I have many other animals, including birds that sing throughout the day)


Thanks for the advice!

I can't seem to upload the photos onto this site so I have put them onto on a picasa album here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/Mani.Arabi/PDFs?authkey=Gv1sRgCP6EpM2siruNqQE#

 

[ChrisK]

Sounds like you're doing good so far, but take the green one out and into another similar tank as soon as you can because it's possibly bullied/stressed. No pics were attached, what are you using for a substrate - and the feeding seems OK so far for now as long as they're a healthy looking weight, until you learn more about supplementation, feeding schedules etc -

 

[EvilLost]

@ChrisK: thanks for the quick reply; the green one is in a different tank

the 2 red ones are in "tall" exo-terra's (i'm guessing like 12x12x18")

the green one is in a nano tank (roughly 8x8x12"?)

Let me know if the pics dont work


EDIT: can you direct me towards info on supplementation? I'm familiar with it due to my chameleon care (i have multivits, calc, calc+d3 etc)

 

[JimO]

Beautiful frogs. They look like O. Pumilio "Bastimentos" to me. Very nice frogs.

 

[james67]

@ChrisK: thanks for the quick reply; the green one is in a different tank

the 2 red ones are in "tall" exo-terra's (i'm guessing like 12x12x18")

the green one is in a nano tank (roughly 8x8x12"?)

Let me know if the pics dont work


EDIT: can you direct me towards info on supplementation? I'm familiar with it due to my chameleon care (i have multivits, calc, calc+d3 etc)

woah! the "nano" tank is WAY too small even for one dart. you need to set up a bigger tank or try and find it a new home IMO.

you have pumilio of an UNKNOWN locale (the red ones) and imitator or variabilis ( im not as familiar with ranitomeya as some other members are)

you do sound like your doing pretty good, but you should get some new cultures of FFs asap. springs cannot be dusted with supplements like flies can (which you also need to do if your not already) i bet that there are froggers not too far away who could give you some cultures or sell them cheaply.


james

 

[Scott]

You also need to be careful about leaving ff cultures in the tank. The frogs can get tangled in the excelsior and lose limbs, or drown if they end up in the media.

s

 

[GSXR_MURRHEE]

Hope this helps a little:

1. The orange/red ones look like pumilio to me, but since many of them can look alike I can't say which type, and the green one looks like an imitator.
2. Sounds like they are wrestling/fighting. Doesn't necessarily mean they are the same sex. I've seen my female mancreeks fight the males a few times.
3. Sounds like you are doing good so far, but I'd probably replace the plastic wrap when you can with a piece of glass, pull out the green one and put it in its own home, also (someone correct me if I''m wrong) you'll want to feed them fruit flies as well as they provide more nutrition than springtails alone.
4. Don't really know how to explain it... if you see one frog leading the other around the tank, it's a good sign. Pumilio calling is usually pretty noticeable, especially if you're in the same room. Search google for some calls so you know what to listen for.

Good luck

 

[Lance]

If I had to guess the red/orange pums look to be Cristobals. The green one looks to be a variabilis highland.
The 2 reds/oranges sound to be males. The larger ones is being the dominate. Be best to separate the 2.
The calling of a Pumilio is loud and is more a squawking chirp. So you wont have a problem figuring where the sound is coming from.

 

[ChrisK]

Yeah take the ff culture out of the tank - here's a good clip on supplementation and search youtube for "expert village dart frogs" for more in depth stuff you would wanna check out (keep in mind those frogs you're keeping will be way more skittish and shy than those tincs in the clips):

 

[VenomR00]

Please get an underbelly shot of the green frog, and I can tell you if its a variabiilis or a imitator.

 

[EvilLost]

In regards to the comments about the FF cup; I just want to point out that I do *NOT* normally leave it in the enclosure. I just happened to put that one in there because it was the very end of the culture and I wanted to let any flies crawl out of it (I only left it in there for an hour or two; just happened to be when I took the picture)

@venom: I will do my best to get an underbelly shot of the green guy, he is extremely elusive.

@james; yea i have not been dusting the springs obviously but i was dusting my FF's lightly with calcium + d3 every other day. I'm not entirely sure on their supplementation schedules....all I have to go off so far is what I supplement my chameleon (but of course I can't just use the same schedule).

You say the nano tank is too small for ONE thumbnail?? Really??? I have a *really* hard time believing this....the frog is the size of a dime at most how can an 8x8x12" tank be too small for him?



So odds are my 2 red/orange guys are O.Pumilio and my green guy is a variabilis?

What about an effective means of sexing? If my guys are both males I don't want one stressing the other, but if thats a female I certainly don't want to separate them!


EDIT: Is there an established supplementation guide? I know with my chameleon I have to use the D3 dust lightly but he has a UVB light that he uses to convert into D3 which the frogs do not have. So how exactly do the frogs get their d3? Should I be dusting with calcium+d3 regularly for my frogs (whereas I only use it twice a month for my chameleon; I just use plain calcium daily for him)

Thanks all for the replies!

 

[frogface]

In addition to the calcium, they also need vitamins. Some folks use Herptivite, which can be found at chain pet stores.

 

[azure89]

The green one is definately a variablis, and as far as advice goes I think everyone else already has you covered

 

[Baltimore Bryan]

In regards to the comments about the FF cup; I just want to point out that I do *NOT* normally leave it in the enclosure. I just happened to put that one in there because it was the very end of the culture and I wanted to let any flies crawl out of it (I only left it in there for an hour or two; just happened to be when I took the picture)

@venom: I will do my best to get an underbelly shot of the green guy, he is extremely elusive.
Try putting him/her in a bigger tank with good planting and leaf litter, it just might help.

@james; yea i have not been dusting the springs obviously but i was dusting my FF's lightly with calcium + d3 every other day. I'm not entirely sure on their supplementation schedules....all I have to go off so far is what I supplement my chameleon (but of course I can't just use the same schedule).

You say the nano tank is too small for ONE thumbnail?? Really??? I have a *really* hard time believing this....the frog is the size of a dime at most how can an 8x8x12" tank be too small for him?
Because that is only a 3 gallon tank- way to small for an adult variabilis. I wouldn't keep an adult pair in anything less than a 10 gallon, and again more space is better.


So odds are my 2 red/orange guys are O.Pumilio and my green guy is a variabilis?
Yes

What about an effective means of sexing? If my guys are both males I don't want one stressing the other, but if thats a female I certainly don't want to separate them!
Have you heard any calling from the pumilio? If not, try misting and playing recorded calls to encourage them to call if they are males.


EDIT: Is there an established supplementation guide? I know with my chameleon I have to use the D3 dust lightly but he has a UVB light that he uses to convert into D3 which the frogs do not have. So how exactly do the frogs get their d3? Should I be dusting with calcium+d3 regularly for my frogs (whereas I only use it twice a month for my chameleon; I just use plain calcium daily for him)
Since the frogs aren't using the uvb or anything, you will need to supplement for their vitamins and calcium. Look into the Repashy powder supplements, they have a nice all-in-one mixture that many people feel does a better job than the Rep-cal/ Herpti-vite combo. There are many more threads on supplementing if you search, especially in the food/feeding section.

Thanks all for the replies!

Some answers are in bold...
Bryan

 

[VenomR00]

Don't be so definitive about the decision. Without an underbelly shot it could be either a Variabillis or Imitator. Underbelly and nose shot will define what it is. And seeing as I have northern and have seen imitator's in life I would know from those two shots.
-Chris

 

[Baltimore Bryan]

This image was one of the ones in the gallery he linked, and it shows the underside.

As you can see, it is blue all the way up to the neck area which is the yellow/green. I thought this was a way to tell the difference between them (it's listed in the care sheets section here), and this frog also has that larger spotting pattern with the single large circle on the nose which I see commonly on the other variabilis, including mine. I'm never owned imitators, so correct me if I'm wrong, but that's why I thought it was a variabilis.
Bryan

 

[EvilLost]

@Baltimore: thanks for the very specific response on that ID!

I'm going with 0.0.2 O.Pumilio "Unknown" and 0.0.1 R.Variabilis "highland" for now? or should i also call that variabilis "unknown" ?

thx for all the answers, the frogs have been doing great since I got them and the pumilios are certainly not shy anymore!! I wish the variabilis came out more but his tank is pretty dense and he blends in so well

 

[Azurel]

I think your safe with calling it a R. variabilis 'Highland' and correct on the O.pumilio....Can you contact the person you bought them from? See if he has any info or where he got them so you can find out what the background info. Gonna be the only way you will be able to find out what exctly they are, other then that it will be a best guess.

 

[EvilLost]

I did not buy them, so no that is not really an option. I took them in as a rescue (he simply gave them and their tanks to me).

I am working with a best guess, but I figured some of you experts can guess a lot better than me!

 

[motydesign]

If I had to guess the red/orange pums look to be Cristobals. The green one looks to be a variabilis highland.
The 2 reds/oranges sound to be males. The larger ones is being the dominate. Be best to separate the 2.
The calling of a Pumilio is loud and is more a squawking chirp. So you wont have a problem figuring where the sound is coming from.

i think lance is correct, it seems to be a o.pumilio cristobal
heres my cristolbal

and by the way this is what a bastimentos looks like