Dendroboard banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,749 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Dendrobates variablis:
  • Difficulty: Intermediate – Based on size and speed.
    [/*:m:1pyapi42]
  • Location & History – Rainforests of northeastern Peru. Discovered by Zimmerman (1988) (1)
    [/*:m:1pyapi42]
  • Descriptions & Behavior: Small (15-18mm) frog with behavior ranging from shy and mildly skittish to bold in the right conditions. The common names of this species include Zimmerman’s poison frog and the variable poison frog (due to the variability in the patterning and coloration observed in the species). Dorsally, they display black spots on a metallic yellow to green background. Ventrally, they display the same black spots, but on a blue-green background, with the exception of the head, which maintains the dorsal background coloration. Legs can be metallic green to blue with black spots. The coloration and patterning of D. variabilis are mimicked by D. imitator imitator, which inhabit the same geographic range. While the two look very similar, there are distinct differences in body shape and patterning. Variabilis possess a single dorsal nose spot with two small spots on the tip of the nose that are not visible when viewed from above, while the two spots on the tip of the nose on an imitator extend onto the top of the head, and can be seen from above. These spots may or may not intersect with one or more smaller nose spots (see image – Variabilis on the left, Imitator on the right).



    The belly patterning between variabilis and imitator is also different. Variabilis have blue ventral coloration with yellow coloration on the neck. Imitator however have a variable amount of yellow coloration that can extend throughout the ventral surface:

    Variabilis

    Imitator


    Currently, there are two lines of variabilis in the hobby. One line (Linbo) originated from CB stock in Europe. The other line was imported by INIBICO starting in the spring of 2006, and more recently by the Understory project. The two lines are phenotypically very similar. Both the INIBICO and Understory frogs are representative of a variable, contiguous population, and mixing is encouraged. However, because definitive site data is not available for the Linbo of variabilis, they should not be mixed with the INIBICO/Understory frogs at this time. However, given the relatively small distribution of the frog, it is likely they do not represent separate populations.
    [/*:m:1pyapi42]
  • General Care:
    Since D. variabilis are found at higher elevations (1600-4500 ft) (2), a cooler temperature range is recommended (low to mid 70’s), but successful husbandry with temp ranges that seasonally approach 80º F has been noted. As with most dendrobatids, a nighttime temp drop of up to 10º F if possible is recommended.

    Variabilis can be housed in pairs, trios or groups. Female heavy groups are preferable, as they encourage breeding activity, and males can exhibit intrasex aggression.

    Vertically oriented enclosures (15H, 20H) with a fair amount of terrestrial space are recommended, as these frogs make regular use of both the vertical space and the viv floor. Bromeliads, large-leaved plants, and vines covering the background (such as creeping fig) offer the frogs security as well as sleeping locations. A thick layer of leaf litter is also recommended, as these frogs like to dart for cover when startled. The more hiding spaces offered, the more the frogs will be out for observation.
    [/*:m:1pyapi42]
  • Breeding & tadpole Care:
    Frogs mature quickly (7-8 months), and males may even begin calling as early as 5 months. Call is audible but not extremely loud; the low buzzing nature of the call resembles that of D. ventrimaculatus. Males will call from laying location to attract female. Females are significantly larger than males.

    Egg deposition has been observed almost entirely in film canisters. Success with the Linbo line has been noted using completely horizontal black film containers placed up high in the viv. INIBICO frogs readily utilize white or black film canisters, tilted at a 45 degree angle half-filled with water. In conversations with individuals who have observed D. variabilis in their natural habitat, it has been reported that egg deposition occurs in the axils of plants filled with water. The angle and level of water within the film canisters appears to serve as an acceptable substitute for the natural preference. Clutches of 4-10 eggs can be laid as often as every 5-7 days. Eggs can be removed from the viv, or left to develop on their own. While tadpoles can be raised by the parents, even with a large number of tad deposition sites, only a small percentage of the tads will be cared for by the parents.

    Tadpoles may exhibit cannibalism and should be housed individually. Tadpoles can be fed tadpole bites, fish flakes or another mostly protein based diet and detritus (decaying leaves and dead FFs), but it is not recommended to raise tadpoles on a mostly algae based diet. Froglets emerge from the water relatively large in comparison to other thumbnails, and while the feeding of springtails for the first couple of weeks is recommended, they rapidly show an interest in stunted and wingless melanogaster.
    [/*:m:1pyapi42]
  • Pictures:


    Nearly morphed variabilis tad:






    [/*:m:1pyapi42]
Links:
Amphibian Steward Network D. variabilis Taxon Management Proposal

References:
(1) www.poison-frogs.com, dart poison frogs, vivaria, plants, together with lots of pictures, films and more. Orchids, bromelia's, mosses, descriptions of dendrobates leucomelas, azureus, pumilio, tinctorius, auratus and how to breed frogs but also fruit
(2) Herpetologic.net

Contributers:
Oz (rozdaboff)
Darren Meyer
Images provided by:
Michael Khadavi (corpus_callosum)
Shawn Harrington(sports_doc)
Antone Jones (frogtofall)
Rob Kleinhanz (kleinhanz)


If you would like to see any updates or modifications to this care sheet please let myself or a moderator know.
Last Updated: 11/24/2007
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,749 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
I had been meaning to get this put together for a while - but finally found the time to do it.

It needs some more pictures - and I know that Shawn has some good pics of his breeders.

<edit> - woops - accidentally posted this in the care sheet section (not creation) - but figured out my mistake after a couple of minutes.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
13,229 Posts
LOL no problem and so far it looks great.

May want to add some comments about the older line being very shy, if not the shyest frogs I have seen.

As fall starts to come I will get more time to work on the care sheets. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,749 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
There is a brief blurb about the noted differences in behavior.

I know how shy my group from Tor is - and I have heard it from others as well. Funny to see two entirely different types of behavior.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
666 Posts
Hey don't know about the shy part my male and female of Tor's line get riught on the front glass and breed . If I watch them he will come to the front and start to call "at" me possibly telling me to stear clear of his girls and her eggs .
The other thing is they will ONLY lay in a compleatly horzontal black film container placed up high in the viv . Though I do keep a water dish in the viv for deposting tads . the typical clutch size is a whopping 4-8 , grow quickly and no sls as of yet .

Just thought I'd share my experince w/ the old line .
Happy frogging ,
Darren
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
666 Posts
I just don't like the way the 2 are being seperated line wise . we did that with the 2 quinq lines like here .
"There are two lines of quinquevittatus in the hobby. Phil Tan's German Line was just recently introduced to the hobby. The German Line Quinquevittatus mature earlier, have brighter colors, but have a higher rate of spindly leg among the tadpoles. The other is the Todd Kelley line, which has slightly duller colors and matures at around 2 years. They mature later but have a much lower rate of spindly leg once they begin to breed " .
Which I don't agree with as both have produced great for me and there is no difference in colors, or sls . And if they are so much more prolific where the heck are they all ?
I just feel that if read that way our hobby "could" tend to ignore one line over the other . which I and many others think is not such a good thing :wink:
just my $ .02
Happy frogging ,
Darren
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,166 Posts
At the same time, it does also say

"However, given the relatively small distribution of the frog, it is likely they do not represent separate populations. "
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
666 Posts
Yes but could you see how given the statment the general public might want to lean more twards one line over the other ? Some of these lines of frogs have been in the hobby for a great many years and are present in many collections around the country . While some of them ( Todd and Tor lines ) might go to more of the "old time froggers " who don't contribute much to this fourm .While some of these old lines have proven the test of time , the new imports still haven't . Though we have all had much luck :p
I believe that the vitality ,breeding , behavior and health is only the experince of the indivdual breeder .
The blanket statments of this breeds better or this line is bolder , more colorful ect ... is just a matter of opinion , and just the experince of the few who have contributed to these care sheets . And should have no place in a care sheet that the general public views to make choices when looking into frogs they are interested in keeping .
That's all . :wink:
Happy frogging ,
Darren
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,749 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Darren -

Thanks for the comments - it is always best to have as many opinions as possible when putting together these sheets. Here are my responses to a couple of your points:

Hey don't know about the shy part my male and female of Tor's line get riught on the front glass and breed . If I watch them he will come to the front and start to call "at" me possibly telling me to stear clear of his girls and her eggs .
I believe that the vitality ,breeding , behavior and health is only the experince of the indivdual breeder .
The blanket statments of this breeds better or this line is bolder , more colorful ect ... is just a matter of opinion , and just the experince of the few who have contributed to these care sheets . And should have no place in a care sheet that the general public views to make choices when looking into frogs they are interested in keeping .
I completely agree that the way the frogger views the behavior of the frog is entirely subjective, and it is always a risk at making such blanket statements in a care sheet. There is more than one instance where I strongly disagree with a claim made within a care sheet, but that is just my opinion over that of someone else.

As for the statement about Tor's variabilis - this is not based on just my personal experience, but experiences of multiple froggers (as a scientist, I am very careful about making broad claims without enough data) - some of which have had the opportunity to work with both lines of variabilis. I wish my group was as bold as you describe yours - wanna trade :wink: The only reason it is included is that one of the first questions every frogger asks is about behavior (and particularly boldness). So far, the INIBICO frogs have not displayed the same behavior - but as many of the frogs are still from the imports of F1 - it is hard to say how their behavior will change. But - the statement is by no means a critical part of the sheet - and can be easily removed.

I just don't like the way the 2 are being seperated line wise . we did that with the 2 quinq lines like here .
"There are two lines of quinquevittatus in the hobby. Phil Tan's German Line was just recently introduced to the hobby. The German Line Quinquevittatus mature earlier, have brighter colors, but have a higher rate of spindly leg among the tadpoles. The other is the Todd Kelley line, which has slightly duller colors and matures at around 2 years. They mature later but have a much lower rate of spindly leg once they begin to breed " .
I never noticed that in the Quinq care sheet, and agree that it should be edited. However, the case for the Linbo/INIBICO frogs is slightly different. ASN has been working on the first Taxon Management Proposal to set the template for the rest, and Variabilis has been chosen for the guinea pig given the limited number of populations in the hobby. As the sheet mentions - there are two well defined populations in the hobby (although there may be a couple more populations in North America in zoos that never made their way into the private sector). Tor's frogs were imported in 1999 from CB stock in Holland. Further data for these frogs is not known - i.e. where the population originated, number of founder individuals, etc. The INIBICO frogs were imported beginning in the spring of 2006. We know the exact location of the population where these frogs came from, as well as the number of founders.

Now - that doesn't make one population more important than the other. However, it is more than justifiable grounds to keep the two populations separate.

Some of these lines of frogs have been in the hobby for a great many years and are present in many collections around the country . While some of them ( Todd and Tor lines ) might go to more of the "old time froggers " who don't contribute much to this fourm .While some of these old lines have proven the test of time , the new imports still haven't .
IMO - the reason a line of frogs "proves the test of time" has nothing to do with the frogs themselves - but instead the number of responsible keepers working with them. Why are Tor's frogs still around? Because of Tor and other froggers like yourself who have kept them going despite market fluctuation. Will the INIBICO imports fare the same? Only time will tell - but if I were to hazard a guess - I would say yes. I would also stress that they need to given the large founder population and the potential for maintaining >90% genetic variability.

So far - this line has made it into the collections of some very responsible froggers (Todd, Phil T., AZDR are ones I know of directly - but assume there are more) - who will hopefully keep them going in addition to some of the "new" froggers. If you have an extra tank, and don't already have some - it would be great if you could pick up a pair or two as well (preferably some of the FR INIBICO frogs from Sean to keep the founder numbers high), and work with ASN and the Variabilis TMG to make sure these frogs (as well as Tor's which are also maintained in the TMP) don't disappear and are managed appropriately.

Oz
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,749 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
I worked on this a little bit more. I added some more pics, added some of Darren's information, and removed the bit generalizing the behavior of the lines.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,602 Posts
rozdaboff said:
I worked on this a little bit more. I added some more pics, added some of Darren's information, and removed the bit generalizing the behavior of the lines.
oh poo, Darren's just bothered his line wasn't listed as the bolder one :)

truth is, I agree we should try to keep to agreed upon behavioural information, more 'factual'... keeping to the scientific review method, esp since behaviour is one of those areas where tank set-ups, specific group dynamics, environmental factors, ect can make one person's group act differently then another's [ie; how our 2 groups of yuris act differently, Oz].

Looking good Oz.

S
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,749 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
I don't think there is anything else I can think of changing right now. We can probably post it - and then if there is anything we think of - make the changes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,749 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
No rush - but just wanted to bump this to the top.

There have been a couple of threads recently looking for this info.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
13,229 Posts
Re: D. variabilis (posted)

Ranitomeya variabilis:
AKA: Dendrobates variabilis
Contributers: Oz (rozdaboff), Darren Meyer
Images provided by: Michael Khadavi (corpus_callosum), Shawn Harrington(sports_doc), Antone Jones (frogtofall), Rob Kleinhanz (kleinhanz)


  • Difficulty: Intermediate – Based on size and speed.
  • Location & History – Rainforests of northeastern Peru. Discovered by Zimmerman (1988) (1)
  • Descriptions & Behavior: Small (15-18mm) frog with behavior ranging from shy and mildly skittish to bold in the right conditions. The common names of this species include Zimmerman’s poison frog and the variable poison frog (due to the variability in the patterning and coloration observed in the species). Dorsally, they display black spots on a metallic yellow to green background. Ventrally, they display the same black spots, but on a blue-green background, with the exception of the head, which maintains the dorsal background coloration. Legs can be metallic green to blue with black spots. The coloration and patterning of D. variabilis are mimicked by D. imitator imitator, which inhabit the same geographic range. While the two look very similar, there are distinct differences in body shape and patterning. Variabilis possess a single dorsal nose spot with two small spots on the tip of the nose that are not visible when viewed from above, while the two spots on the tip of the nose on an imitator extend onto the top of the head, and can be seen from above. These spots may or may not intersect with one or more smaller nose spots (see image – Variabilis on the left, Imitator on the right).



    The belly patterning between variabilis and imitator is also different. Variabilis have blue ventral coloration with yellow coloration on the neck. Imitator however have a variable amount of yellow coloration that can extend throughout the ventral surface:

    Variabilis

    Imitator


    Currently, there are two lines of variabilis in the hobby. One line (Linbo) originated from CB stock in Europe. The other line was imported by INIBICO starting in the spring of 2006, and more recently by the Understory project. The two lines are phenotypically very similar. Both the INIBICO and Understory frogs are representative of a variable, contiguous population, and mixing is encouraged. However, because definitive site data is not available for the Linbo of variabilis, they should not be mixed with the INIBICO/Understory frogs at this time. However, given the relatively small distribution of the frog, it is likely they do not represent separate populations.
  • General Care:
    Since D. variabilis are found at higher elevations (1600-4500 ft) (2), a cooler temperature range is recommended (low to mid 70’s), but successful husbandry with temp ranges that seasonally approach 80º F has been noted. As with most dendrobatids, a nighttime temp drop of up to 10º F if possible is recommended.

    Variabilis can be housed in pairs, trios or groups. Female heavy groups are preferable, as they encourage breeding activity, and males can exhibit intrasex aggression.

    Vertically oriented enclosures (15H, 20H) with a fair amount of terrestrial space are recommended, as these frogs make regular use of both the vertical space and the viv floor. Bromeliads, large-leaved plants, and vines covering the background (such as creeping fig) offer the frogs security as well as sleeping locations. A thick layer of leaf litter is also recommended, as these frogs like to dart for cover when startled. The more hiding spaces offered, the more the frogs will be out for observation.
  • Breeding & tadpole Care:
    Frogs mature quickly (7-8 months), and males may even begin calling as early as 5 months. Call is audible but not extremely loud; the low buzzing nature of the call resembles that of D. ventrimaculatus. Males will call from laying location to attract female. Females are significantly larger than males.

    Egg deposition has been observed almost entirely in film canisters. Success with the Linbo line has been noted using completely horizontal black film containers placed up high in the viv. INIBICO frogs readily utilize white or black film canisters, tilted at a 45 degree angle half-filled with water. In conversations with individuals who have observed D. variabilis in their natural habitat, it has been reported that egg deposition occurs in the axils of plants filled with water. The angle and level of water within the film canisters appears to serve as an acceptable substitute for the natural preference. Clutches of 4-10 eggs can be laid as often as every 5-7 days. Eggs can be removed from the viv, or left to develop on their own. While tadpoles can be raised by the parents, even with a large number of tad deposition sites, only a small percentage of the tads will be cared for by the parents.

    Tadpoles may exhibit cannibalism and should be housed individually. Tadpoles can be fed tadpole bites, fish flakes or another mostly protein based diet and detritus (decaying leaves and dead FFs), but it is not recommended to raise tadpoles on a mostly algae based diet. Froglets emerge from the water relatively large in comparison to other thumbnails, and while the feeding of springtails for the first couple of weeks is recommended, they rapidly show an interest in stunted and wingless melanogaster.
  • Pictures:


    Nearly morphed variabilis tad:







Links:
Amphibian Steward Network D. variabilis Taxon Management Proposal

References:
(1) www.poison-frogs.com, dart poison frogs, vivaria, plants, together with lots of pictures, films and more. Orchids, bromelia's, mosses, descriptions of dendrobates leucomelas, azureus, pumilio, tinctorius, auratus and how to breed frogs but also fruit
(2) Herpetologic.net


If you would like to see any updates or modifications to this care sheet please let myself or a moderator know.
Last Updated: 1/16/2009
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top