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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Considered two new species of Ranitomeya, i was wondering has anyone have them in captivity or have heard any news on these. They are pretty amazing frogs IMO. :D


R. Cyanovittata


R. Yavaricola

Source:Dendrobates.org - News

Really late on this since it was last year that they found these.
 

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A blue R. flavovittata! I'll take ten!

Richard.
 
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I don't care! I want them, I NEED them! I will not be complete until I POSSESS them!

I'll pay anything, no questions asked! NO QUESTIONS ASKED!

(hopefully, the people that know me will find this amusing!).

Richard.

if they were just discovered, i doubt they are legally here...
 
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I don't forsee either being available any time soon. I asked understory about yavaricola almost a year ago. they didn't really seem too intersted in bringing them in. they refered to them as a flav with jazzed up legs. Not to mention they are in a parsel of land that understory does not currently own and they are tied up with several other projects they deem more important. Of course this is all information obtained almost a year ago so perhaps thier opinoin has changed but I would not hold my breath.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Well they need to bring these specimens in the U.S hobby ASAP:D
 

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Well they need to bring these specimens in the U.S hobby ASAP:D
Is this another case of the Pokemon Syndrome?

The work that would need to be done with these guys to get them up here will literally take years from the initial decision for someone to start working with them. If they are offered here in the next few years you can be assured they are smuggled. I would just as soon leave these frogs alone and keep the demand low so the Germans don't simply see dollar signs when looking at these frogs.
 

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Most folks in the hobby are fascinated by newly discovered species or color morphs. Some of the recent discoveries are nice, but objectively, when compared with some of the frogs we have in abundance, they aren't really that much more attractive. Also, keep in mind that those types of photos are likely taken by professional photographers and of the best looking specimens.

Also, especially with the smaller species, you can only really appreciate their beauty when you have a nice close up with a quality camera. When I was selling some intermedius, I took photos and zoomed in on the individual frogs to post for sale. It almost made me have second thoughts about selling them. Up close, they are gorgeous. Honestly, though, in a thickly planted viv, with condensation on the glass, and someone like me who needs reading glasses within 2 feet of anything small, the differences among thumbnail color morphs isn't as dramatic as, say, the differences seen in close ups from talented photographers like JohnC, eos, and others.

Imagine if Leucomelas were only recently discovered. We'd go nuts over them and yet because they are so common and have been in the hobby so long, most dart froggers are pretty ho hum about them and other common varieties.

Unfortunately, the smugglers know this. They know that if they can bring in a new species or morph, that there are enough people who want the latest model to make it very lucrative to take the risk.

It wouldn't surprise me if some of the photos we see of new frogs are floated out there by smugglers to test the interest level by watching the buzz on the forums. They have the frog "laundering" thing down to a science. They check the data from those who discovered the frog, get the location information, and probably have a breeding group somewhere in Europe within months of discovery.

It wouldn't surprise me if both these new frogs have already been smuggled out. IMHO, I fear that if we oooh and aaaah too much, it will only encourage them.
 

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Jim your pretty dead on, I would suggest within weeks of discovery there are groups in Europe. The newly discovered Colombian thumbs were a pretty good example of that. Though some some discovered a while ago have never become targets Viriolensis, Opistholmelas trickled in a bit in the 90's but never caught on as well as Bombetes (but that frog has seen renewed interest).
It would be great to see these countries set up breeding programs of their own species to ensure there is at least some existing population. I know Colombia has quite a few Histo/LLehmanni in zoos now doing just that.
 

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Considering these two species were described from some of the most remote areas of the Amazon (especially R. cyanovittata, accessible only by helicopter) I'd be pretty surprised if smugglers actually made it out there to collect some. You'd really have to be determined, or rich, to smuggle R. cyanovittata.

As far as people thinking these photos are "cherry-picked" (only taken of the nicest specimens), well, if it satisfies you then I invite you to check out Figures 5 and 10 of our description paper which is available here:

http://www.dendrobates.org/articles/Perez-Pena_etal_2010_Two new Ranitomeya.pdf


Evan
 

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Thanks for the link. That is a great paper. My comments were not at all directed at you or any other scientists working with frogs in the field. I just imagine that smugglers will cherry pick the best photos of a frog they might plan on smuggling and float it around the frog forums to see how much interest there is.

And, I wouldn't discount the possibility of them using helicoptors or hiring locals as guidses. I would bet that smuggling new and rare specimens is funded by wealthy collectors rather than small-time dbags trying to make a quick buck.
As far as people thinking these photos are "cherry-picked" (only taken of the nicest specimens), well, if it satisfies you then I invite you to check out Figures 5 and 10 of our description paper which is available here:

http://www.dendrobates.org/articles/Perez-Pena_etal_2010_Two new Ranitomeya.pdf


Evan
 

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hey Demonic,

this quote is what I told you.
"Michael, don't hold your breath. The species description has barely cooled off. The species will have to be internally categorized by the DGFFS. So we would need to wait until that happens to even see if we could submit a management plan to propose working with the species."

followed by:
"In the mean time you might consider a species like flavs. Superficially a yavaricola without the jazzed up legs. When I first saw the pics surfacing of yavaricola I wrongfully assumed they were a nice morph of flavs. Flavs also seem to play second fiddle to vanzolini, and I am not sure why."

The exchange is still visible in the comments section of our Facebook page in the Muchos Gringos album.

The fact that it does not occur on land we own has absolutely nothing to do with our ability to work with these two, or any given species. The DGFFS meets and consults with biologists and researches to categorize the flora and fauna of Peru, Endangered, vulnerable, threatened etc. These internal categorizations determine whether any species is one which can be brought into the fold of the management plan of licensed zoocriadero's. Until these species are categorized we have absolutely no avenue to pursue them on.

To be clear I am not picking on you, but somehow I feel that what I told you got more than a little twisted/or misunderstood, and this is only an attempt to straighten it out.

Finally, I second JohnC's comment.
 

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You know guys, just by perpetuating the hobby we are all indirectly responsible for continued smuggling regardless of how good our intentions are.
 
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