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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)

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Re: SNDF-Pumilio pairs available

Late edit...the Guaramo on TE do look very similar to Rambala. I'm guessing the Rambala link you put up linked to the wrong pics.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Re: SNDF-Pumilio pairs available

Late edit...the Guaramo on TE do look very similar to Rambala. I'm guessing the Rambala link you put up linked to the wrong pics.
Nope, that is the correct picture. That morph guide you posted is the ONLY other source that shows Rambala that look like that, and they have proven several times that they are not a reliable source. Every where else they look exactly like the one I posted. There are more here: www.DendroBase.de
 

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Re: SNDF-Pumilio pairs available

with that being said, from your own site these could be guabo
unfortunately well never know and just have to call them what they were imported as 2012 rambala. even though i do tend to side with them "looking" more like Guaramo.
 

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Re: SNDF-Pumilio pairs available

Nope, that is the correct picture. That morph guide you posted is the ONLY other source that shows Rambala that look like that, and they have proven several times that they are not a reliable source. Every where else they look exactly like the one I posted. There are more here: www.DendroBase.de
Hey Adam

This link shows Rambala like those that SNDF have posted.....
Interspecific and intraspecific views of color signals in the strawberry poison frog Dendrobates pumilio
 

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Re: SNDF-Pumilio pairs available

First and foremost, let me say that the only thing I know for sure is that these frogs are beautiful!

I do not think accepting the nomenclature of the frog as stated by the importer is the proper way to address this issue. Maintaining factual information pertaining to the lineage of the plant/animal used in breeding is hugely important to many, and rightly so. No one has a problem with a dog that is a ' mutt' vs. an AKC accepted breed, but misidentify or imply that one is the other, and problems develop.

In my business (landscape) it is unbelievable how many professional nurseries put out misinformation regarding,or wrongly identifying, species and cultivars, etc. There are sources of information that we do have, however, that cut through all of this and become our 'bibles', and are widely regarded in the industry as being such.

As this color morph has obviously been identified as two different types of pumilio in the literature, and therefore, most likely is misidentified in at least two places, which source carries the most merit? What is the 'bible'? I am not the one to judge that, but others here are certainly qualified to do so.

I will leave to others to decide which to use but, in my opinion, if a name is to be used, it damn well better be the right one. For me, for now, 'beautiful' will suffice.

Cliff
 

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Re: SNDF-Pumilio pairs available

Cliff, comparing these morphs to plants isnt a fair comparison. If you have ever been to these frog's habitat you will find that some of these mainland morph roll over areas and are not as easily defined as the island morphs. Rambala vs Guarumo is A and B respectively (this is also subjective to what you call the area, and once again we fall back to GPS data needed for imports...thatll never happen)
"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet"
2012 Rambala is the right name, this also insures these are not to be bred with old line guarumos.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Re: SNDF-Pumilio pairs available

with that being said, from your own site these could be guabo
Not really, those are much duller with a different pattern...

Thanks, that is a reliable source. Chances are, these 2 populations are very close to each other and some people call them Rambala and some call them Guarumo.

Cliff, comparing these morphs to plants isnt a fair comparison. If you have ever been to these frog's habitat you will find that some of these mainland morph roll over areas and are not as easily defined as the island morphs. Rambala vs Guarumo is A and B respectively (this is also subjective to what you call the area, and once again we fall back to GPS data needed for imports...thatll never happen)
2012 Rambala is the right name, this also insures these are not to be bred with old line guarumos.
Nice job with the map. It really says to me exactly what I said above though, I'm sure these are the same frogs with different names. Those 2 locations are pretty close to each other. Too bad it's just another thing we will never know for sure.
 

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Re: SNDF-Pumilio pairs available

I wouldn't necessarily agree that it isn't a fair comparison as the same thing can happen in all types of flora and fauna, island vs. mainland etc. This issue is by no means unique to frogs.

Again, I feel it is important that, if a name is to be used, it should be accurate. With your comments and maps, you in fact go a long way towards providing the kind of information that is needed to identify, define, and differentiate these issues. Obviously, DNA rules the roost here.

The frogs in the photo most likely aren't both-they are either one or the other. I think there is also a good chance Adam is right and they, are in fact, all the same frog morph. I agree with your assessment that, by organizing and identifying frogs to a very specific GPS location, you will at least ensure that you are dealing with the same populations (if that is what you want to do) in the future for breeding or otherwise. Regardless of their name!

Cliff
 

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Re: SNDF-Pumilio pairs available

Given that the parents of these captive bred frogs are carefully maintained in breeding facilities in Panama, I would think it would be an easy task to have a look at the records from these breeding facilities to determine exactly where the parent frogs were collected from the wild.

Richard.
 
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Re: SNDF-Pumilio pairs available

Just a random thought... All of this discussion isn't going to mean much when the list of classifieds eventually gets purged... It may be a good idea to at least copy the discussion over to another section so it survives for a longer period....

Some comments

Ed
 
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Discussion Starter #15
Re: SNDF-Pumilio pairs available

Just a random thought... All of this discussion isn't going to mean much when the list of classifieds eventually gets purged... It may be a good idea to at least copy the discussion over to another section so it survives for a longer period....

Some comments

Ed
Good idea.

Those are Guarumo
Shawn, is this just your opinion based on how they look or something else? Also, any chance you can make the above happen?
 

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Re: SNDF-Pumilio pairs available

I thought this wasn't the place for discussions such as these. Last time i did it it got erased.
 

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Re: SNDF-Pumilio pairs available

I thought this wasn't the place for discussions such as these. Last time i did it it got erased.
I asked a question about their product, had they answered, the discussion wouldn't have occurred here.

Last time I did it though, I got an infraction.
 

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I moved posts from the classified ad to this thread, so the information would not be lost. Please remember that classified ads are not the place for discussions.
Thanks Zach.... I was doing it the hard way....


Back to topic:

In that link I posted they specificlly say that the frog they posted as Ramabala which is identical to the one posted by SNDF was collected in/by Ramabala for the reseach paper...Could it be they are a mixed local that does not interbreed thus both could infact be either or, based on where it is collected?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thanks Zach.... I was doing it the hard way....


Back to topic:

In that link I posted they specificlly say that the frog they posted as Ramabala which is identical to the one posted by SNDF was collected in/by Ramabala for the reseach paper...Could it be they are a mixed local that does not interbreed thus both could infact be either or, based on where it is collected?
Completely possible. Perhaps they are separated by a river. That was the case with Guarumo and Rio Branco wasn't it?

pumilio are always so confusing...
 
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