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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
most likely: European tree frog ones

Hi from Austria,
I am not sure if this is the right page, but you guys seem quite knowledgeable.

Background:
12 days ago whilst cleaning the almost empty pool my mom showed me something on her nanocloth. It was eggs of amphibians - I assume from European tree frogs as those visited our garden the day before. I also rescued some newts from the pool before cleaning - so I can't exclude them. Eggs were black and white with not too much jelly surrounding them. Unknowingly, I quickly put the whole cleaning cloth into a big plastic bucket with well water, tads facing down (the cleaning cloth swims) - Probably they should have faced upwards? I put rocks inside the bucket too. I didn’t expect any to survive, as the eggs were laid into a tiny bit of water with harsh detergent inside.

Long story short:
A week later 2 of ~8 hatched. One is currently 4-5 days old and started zooming around a bit. He also started coming to the water surface. I currently can’t see the other one. I assume he passed away.

Now that I read into it, I have many questions:

Environment / temperature?
I have them in a soft plastic bucket outside in a mostly sunny place (16-32C outside temp, 15-27C water temp so far). I currently use an umbrella to provide shade. I guess it’s a bad solution (It’s not the kind of plastic bucket which looks safe for such purpose + we currently have rather hot weather).
I would have an aquarium to put them/him into, but I am anxious he gets stressed or dies when I catch him (if I can - he swims good and fast). What would be the best solution?

Food?
I have 10L+ water inside the bucket. There are quite many mosquito larvae and little worms too. How much to feed per day? Is it okay when I feed a pinch of Sera Micron per day? Will the tad/s find it in such a big bucket, or will the mosquito larvae eat it?
I also bought LuckyReptile Quappo, but it seems to be too big for him. The bucket has algae developing.

Please be indulgent, I had no idea what I am doing. My main intention was to put the eggs into water.

Thanks in advance! I really would like him to survive.
 

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Hmm. Well you could get a sheep trough, put some native water greenery in it, put it where it would be sun dappled but improvise deep shade on one end. Perhaps set a board across one end. And that would be closer to letting nature take its course.

I understand crossing paths with the vulnerability of life, both new and not so new, and wanting to offer it some mercy.

Thank you. For being you.
 
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If they are treefrog species they will have no problem morphing out of the trough. They will easily perch on the interior, and sides.

Putting some jutting and floating structure, both in shade and lit areas is a beneficial kindness to the metamorphs, no matter what species they are.
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Thank you so much for answering!

Hmm. Well you could get a sheep trough, put some native water greenery in it, put it where it would be sun dappled but improvise deep shade on one end. Perhaps set a board across one end. And that would be closer to letting nature take its course.
A sheep trough sounds like an awesome idea, with two risks: free-roaming cats and overflowing due to rain. I’ll surely look into the option.
Does it matter which plants? I already ordered java moss, but don't know what else to get. I am anxious, a plant pot could move and crush him - maybe I am too careful? :X He has hiding places "under/in between" stones, which he liked to use in his first days of life.

If they are treefrog species they will have no problem morphing out of the trough. They will easily perch on the interior, and sides.
Putting some jutting and floating structure, both in shade and lit areas is a beneficial kindness to the metamorphs, no matter what species they are.
I surely will think about an easy exit (this is why I initially put all the stones), but I still have 2-4 weeks left, right?
Now I am more concerned with his current survival. How much Sera Micron to give? I tried spinach and a tiny tadpole pellet too, but he seems to be more interested into mouthing the bucket whilst the midge larvae eat his food.
Would a partial water change once a week be fine or should I just leave it? I would use well water + water cleaner + would let the water rest for 24h.

Also, if you don't mind, I have another question: I put the cleaning cloth egg-side down into the water, as it floats (some eggs were on the side of the cloth). But I read the eggs should face upwards? Should I switch their position in case they still hatch? Or put the cloth into a transparent cup so they can get a bit of sunlight? Or would the sole action of putting the cloth out of the water hurt them? 🙄
 

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I mention troughs because of some amphibian projects that made me like them for various reasons.

You could substitute it for another container. I would recommend something larger. The more water you have, the more stable it will be and the slower things happen with the water chemistry and build up of wastes. If the container has some length it makes it easier to add shade and mild diversity of conditions and choice. I was under the impression this was out doors.

Dont use transparent containers out doors. Only opaque walled containers where there will be moving daylight exposure. Lots of live local aquatic vegetation from where you got the eggs. I dont have any input about the well water in your locality. Perhaps some one here will have advice or call an aquarium & tropical fish store in your locality about the water situation.

I probably would take a less is more approach and if the cloth is small enough not to become a smothering veil in the water i would weigh a portion of it down on the bottom with a heavy rock and just let it float suspended in the water. Maybe snip away excess material if needed.

I have always found food pastes well received. I mix a good flake or reptimin w water to make a paste and smear streaks of it over a rock. I let it set and harden for a while before putting it in the tank. If you use 2 rocks its good because you rotate them.

Dont put too much dissolvable food matter at a time in the water or it becomes a fetid solution.

Your nose will inform you more accurately than numbering human days to a schedule if you need to replace water.

Im not really able to picture your situation. So take what you will, hopefully theres something here to use.

I must say though that a bucket in sunshine would be problematic here where I am. Heat and too much ultraviolet exposure for the eggs and tads.

Hopefully someone closer to your area in the world could jump in.
 
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One thing I found very useful with outdoor water work and other work too is a headlamp. Try not to be tempted to use high settings of powerful led lamps that might stress the animals.

I have an old incandescent one that i use in my reptile room to check on my guys at night sometimes.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks so much again!
I think he grew. He comes to the water surface a lot now. Is it bad, like to less oxygen? Or does it mean he actually eats the Sera Micron?

I mention troughs because of some amphibian projects that made me like them for various reasons.

You could substitute it for another container. I would recommend something larger. The more water you have, the more stable it will be and the slower things happen with the water chemistry and build up of wastes. If the container has some length it makes it easier to add shade and mild diversity of conditions and choice. I was under the impression this was out doors.
Yes, it's outdoors. Some watering trough sounds like such a good idea, thank you. I hate this, but I need to move his bucket anyway, as workers will be working at the area where he is currently at.. I don't dare to move the bucket with him inside due to all the stones. How to best catch him without scaring him? I could also remove the stones and move him inside the bucket? will make a picture of my bucket later on.

Lots of live local aquatic vegetation from where you got the eggs.
Got the eggs from parent's pool after it was cleaned. So the silly frogs laid their eggs in a tiny bit of water with harsh detergent in it. Will try to find out and order what's local. Java moos is still ok, although not local?

I probably would take a less is more approach and if the cloth is small enough not to become a smothering veil in the water i would weigh a portion of it down on the bottom with a heavy rock and just let it float suspended in the water. Maybe snip away excess material if needed.
It's a big nano - sponge (don't know how to name it in English). My mom put the eggs on there when she found them. I wish she didn't. I'll transfer it to another bucket before the little guy gets sick of it. I'll try to think of a stone solution.

I have always found food pastes well received. I mix a good flake or reptimin w water to make a paste and smear streaks of it over a rock. I let it set and harden for a while before putting it in the tank. If you use 2 rocks its good because you rotate them.
That's great, he loves stones. Will see what kinda paste I can find.

Dont put too much dissolvable food matter at a time in the water or it becomes a fetid solution.
Is a pinch a day too much?
I just removed about 30 midge larvae with a spoon lol ..and it's still so many + mosquito larvae. So I am inclined to give more food, as I've a feeling they could eat it before he does.

I must say though that a bucket in sunshine would be problematic here where I am. Heat and too much ultraviolet exposure for the eggs and tads.
Yes, that's my concern too. As said, I use an umbrella (for rain) - it's just providing shade, but I feel like it's storing heat.
I think about using an old table instead until I have what I need to provide a better environment.

Thanks so much for your time and help. I really appreciate it. And sorry for my lengthy messages and all the dumb questions.
 

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You dont need to be sorry at all and they arent unnecessary questions.

As for the food its really hard to say but im feelin like when you say pinch of flake it will just get lost.

A sinking pellet or wafer food is easier to keep track of. Algae is encouraged.

Just keep watching the way they move and eat they are surfaces oriented. Working their mouths over all the surfaces they encounter. Youll get it.
 
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Pull the stones out carefully and move the bucket.

Put the stones back in carefully. Dont try to guess how he will move. Just ease them to the bottom.

If its too hard gently pour him into another Clean bucket and transfer after putting rocks back.

A solid colored storage bin is an acceptable artificial pond.

If you put it on a bench or table it might be easier to work with.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
As for the food its really hard to say but im feelin like when you say pinch of flake it will just get lost.

A sinking pellet or wafer food is easier to keep track of. Algae is encouraged.

Just keep watching the way they move and eat they are surfaces oriented. Working their mouths over all the surfaces they encounter. Youll get it.
Yes, exactly. I just feel I've no control over the powder. Today I caught him eagerly mouthing the tadpole pellet for minutes + from all directions - the pellet was almost the size of his "head" after it softened in the water. Hope he could eat it and wasn't just trying.

[/QUOTE]

Pull the stones out carefully and move the bucket.

Put the stones back in carefully. Dont try to guess how he will move. Just ease them to the bottom.

If its too hard gently pour him into another Clean bucket and transfer after putting rocks back.

A solid colored storage bin is an acceptable artificial pond.

If you put it on a bench or table it might be easier to work with.
Thanks. I found someone who could give me with such a storage bin :)
I am silly - removing stones shouldn't be a problem. I should have done this days ago as I feel like the stones could be risky for him, especially with all the tiny hiding places.
Not sure if I dare to pour him out when transferring to a new place. I thought about patiently waiting with a food storage cup until he enters on free will, but he probably won't be that stupid.

Thank you for all your great input, you're awesome! I'll try to implement every single one of your inputs.

So, here's his disgusting, embarrassing environment - it was used for weeds and I didn't clean it at all before I put the eggs inside... I am looking forward to providing something adequate for him. Little guy was hiding under grass stalk. :D

I put the sponge with the eggs into another container for safety of little guy (Jelly + white of the egg is completely gone. Black dots stayed, some U-shaped, but they seemed sooo tiny. Probably a bad timing to put them inside a new cup..)

Put hand for reference.
300347



Bucket size
tadbucket.jpeg
 

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He will suck on the pellet or wafer so its ok if its not bite sized.

I use a turkey baster to remove stale stuff or a piece of fuzzed over matter, etc.

I think its cool that you want to treat him so courteously. He might go in the cup. Go ahead and give it a try!
 
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Loba that environment isnt disgusting. Youve a little creek habitat there.

Hey you asked about java moss, yes thats good stuff. Other floating plantlife you dont need sub for is anacharas and my favorite - hornwort. It makes great cover for the tads and froglets can sit on it too. You get it at a tropical fishes shop.
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Very happy to know that he can actually eat the pellet :)

I use a turkey baster to remove stale stuff or a piece of fuzzed over matter, etc.
I ordered a cleaning pipette, but yes, it’s about time. I will clean it off the stones when removing them.

Thanks for your quick replies! I feel more confident now :) It’s interesting how much one doesn’t know until facing a specific situation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Except for tiny
300401


Either I imagine or he has tiny “bulges” where his hind legs should be, but internet says it’s many weeks until metamorphosis so I’m confused - again :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Hey you asked about java moss, yes thats good stuff. Other floating plantlife you dont need sub for is anacharas and my favorite - hornwort. It makes great cover for the tads and froglets can sit on it too. You get it at a tropical fishes shop.
Sorry, I've yet another question.
The java moss I received sits on some "jelly". That jelly doesn't harm him (after removing it)?
The other plants you mentioned refer to "Ceratophyllum demersum" and "Hydrocharis/common frogbit", yes? (having a translation issue)
 

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The jelly might be some polymer ("water crystal) material. Rinse it out Completely.

It has expansive mechanical behavior when ingested that has caused death in lizards, frogs, even zoo birds.
 

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I dont know the scientific names for anacharis and hornwort. Sometimes anacharis is called Elodea.

Anacharis is very edible for tads. But pull out and discard it if it turns dark and becomes slimy. Useless then.

Hornwort is a good enrichment tool and provides a nice cloud of floating cover.
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
The jelly might be some polymer ("water crystal) material. Rinse it out Completely.

It has expansive mechanical behavior when ingested that has caused death in lizards, frogs, even zoo birds.
Wow, that’s super important information!
Buyer said “even for very sensitive animals, no harmful substances”. :oops: I rinsed it well, but tiny amounts were sticking to the plant. I put a small amount of Java moss inside the water. Little guy races around the container walls since hours and makes me worried. I hope it has nothing to do with the polymers. I removed the plant and put stones over the place where the plant has been laying as soon as reading your comment - won’t have an effect, but still.
I won’t use it or only when it rested in a different water for weeks. I hope he is having an energy burst and is actually being fine :/
 
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