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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have two Variabilis that I purchased as a "probable pair." I'm unsure of their age, however I have had them for 3 to 4 months, and they have grown very little if at all. So far I have heard no calling and seen no signs of aggression between the two. I've only seen them be within an inch of each other once or twice, however they do spend significant time behind the cork flat being used as a background. One difference is that one of the frogs is frequently, though not constantly, considerably more... plump, than the other. However I do believe this is from gorging itself on fruit flies, since I have obviously never seen any deposited eggs. At this point I'm starting to assume that they may be two females. Just this evening, I found a male variabilis call on youtube, and tried playing that to the frogs. The plumper of the two left the bromeliad, and hid, however the other frog went absolutely nuts. It just started jumping everywhere, then laid on its back on the leaf litter, at first I thought I had given it a heart attack or that it had broke something jumping like that, but after almost ten minutes it started acting normal... until I opened the door to get a better look, when the frog lept out of the tank. That was a first. Luckily I caught it and put it back in the tank. One last note, I mist usually once a day for about fifteen seconds. That keeps it very humid and moist, but I'm wondering if maybe getting an auto mister would stimulate anything in case it is a pair. Anyways, I was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the sex of the frogs, or could explain the erratic behavior from playing the call off youtube.
Thanks!
Josh
 

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If one frogs remains a consistent size/shape which is smaller than the frog whose weight/size fluctuates up and down...well to me that sounds like a breeding pair that is dropping and hiding clutches somewhere in your tank. Just a guess though and nothing more.


I do think that this, while unrelated to the point of this thread, may be worth looking into...

then laid on its back on the leaf litter, at first I thought I had given it a heart attack or that it had broke something jumping like that, but after almost ten minutes it started acting normal...

This doesn't sound like normal behavior to me and my first thought is that it may be an early indication of calcium deficiency. Not trying to cause any alarm here but like I said...worth looking into. What does your current supplementation regimen consist of?
 

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Just a quick note they have a very quite call so maybe he is calling and you have not noticed. Also I have found from my own pair plus have seen a bunch of posts alike that they lay in film cans before anything else not to say they won't lay in a brom but films cans are 99 percent lay spots in my Viv. For some reason mine always put the clutch in water no matter what even if the canister is only a qtr full they still put them in the water leaving me with more bad eggs then good.
 

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When my variabilis call I can definitely hear them. I keep 6 in a 40g vert they lay in broms and canisters. I also have the same egg submersion issue. When possible I make groups, I had 3 Lamasi doing nothing after I added another group of 3 I got eggs right away. I would get another pair make it a group, thats what I fing most successful.
 

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Without pictures it's hard to tell. but it's definitely not normal for it to be having spasm attacks like that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Well I don't actually do any supplementation, just healthy FF. I probably should start though. But why do you think that has anything to do with calcium deficiency? They have absolutely no problem with mobility. I have heard sounds before... kind of like a quite cricket. Problem is, I also have a few chameleons that I feed crickets to, now currently I'm only feeding 3/8" crickets which cannot... call? Well whatever it is they do to make the cricket sound, the crickets I feed are too young to make. But, many escape, and the love to hide under/behind the dart tank... which is also next to where I house my computer tower! Haha, well, anyways, I've always assumed that this call i hear is either something from my computer, or a loose cricket that's grown large enough to make sounds. I feel comfortable saying one of the frogs is larger than the other, but I know that might simply mean it eats more.
 

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I recommend getting them some supplements as well as stop taking them on walks outside the tank.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Talked to curlykid, gonna start dusting with the next feeding. So lets assume the erratic behavior is related to having a calcium deficiency, why would playing the call trigger this? Keep in mind, this is the only time either frog has exhibited any behavior like this, and their behavior has gone back to normal since the incident.
 

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josh, could have stressed the frog out enough to trigger the spasm, or a coincidence, it's hard to say. Once these frogs get some supplementation I'm sure they will be very prolific for you. Do you mind getting us some pics so we might have a better go at sexing? thanks
 

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Glad to hear you'll be supplementing. Calcium deficiency does cause siezures in some frogs. Also, Vitamin A deficiency could cause SLS in any froglets you get. I've raised over a hundred variabilis from my breeding group of five. They do well in groups so the lack of aggression doesn't indicate sex. I agree with Randommind's comments. Females are slightly larger and noticeably more plump unless they've just dropped a clutch of eggs. I rarely hear my males calling, but I have their viv next to a gurgling aquarium, so it's not exactly quiet. You can try playing a recording, but you might not see any courting behaviour until they have a balance of vitamins and minerals in their diet.
 

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From what I understand FF are about as healthy as rice, fill you up, thats about it. All yur herps will do better with suplements. I wouldnt ever neglect dusting, used yur technique on my first giant day gecko and lets just say, I learned my lesson.
Im suprised no one has givin you a long drawn out lecture about no suplements.
 

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These frogs look very skinny. Just make sure you get them on a dusting regimen quickly and once they recover it will most likely be very easy to tell. notice how in the second pic, the frog has almost no fat reserves other than what is in it's stomach at that point? It may be some sort of parasite also, maybe Ed can chime in here. It could be just an awkward position, but I doubt it. Have you had fecals done on these guys before?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Here's a picture I just took with both of them. Any more thoughts? I also took a video of the larger (on the right) approaching the smaller, turning sideways and almost laying down, and then hoping away. But it doesn't look like I can post a video on here...?
 

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