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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Can someone shed some light on how this process works? More and more companies are selling 'farmed' auratus and some pumilio. Who is exporting all of these frogs? How many people are actually importing them? I am looking for some general knowledge on the process as well as number of farms, locations, etc. Any information would be helpful.

I have noticed a lot of the companies getting these animals are not dart frog specialists or even people that know much about them. Do the larger reptile importers have excusive access to the exporters? What type of costs are involved in this process?

-Richard
 

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URBAN FROGZ said:
(for exemple, I know an european importer can have pumilio only if he buys many auratus too... :? )
Same with these shipments. What some people dont realise, is for every few pumilios imported, hundreds of wc auratus are also coming in. Some couldnt care less about the auratus, just the fact they have pumilio. You know these auratus will be mistreated and disposed of. Is this the way the hobby should turn out? Im quoting someone when i say they will be the first disposable dart frog. Its a shame.

Also note the pumilio are being bought for a few dollar bills, but sold for hundreds.

M.N
 

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People realize it. Glenn has always stated that he was bringing a lot of auratus and red eyed tree frogs too. I have some of the auratus in quarentine now. They are a nice colored morph, I am hoping that they do well.
Ed
 
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Moe wrote:

"Same with these shipments. What some people dont realise, is for every few pumilios imported, hundreds of wc auratus are also coming in. Some couldnt care less about the auratus, just the fact they have pumilio. You know these auratus will be mistreated and disposed of. Is this the way the hobby should turn out?"

"Also note the pumilio are being bought for a few dollar bills, but sold for hundreds."

That's heck of a statement. The Auratus would come in anyway with or without the Pumilio. The Auratus are not going to be mistreated and disposed of, that's just stupid. And the only Pumilio I saw for sale for hundreds of dollars were the ones from Seaside. The one's I purchased were sustantially lower than captive bred prices, as they should be. I think the $95.00 was more than a fair price for the quality of frogs that I recieved.

What is happening with the imports now is good for the hobby, not bad as you are implying. It's a rough start but once the "frog farms" get going we can hopefully expect some nice quality PDF's from them, and they can leave the ones in the wild alone, which is the goal. Will it stop poaching and smuggeling? That will never stop, but hopefully it will be reduced quite a bit. Try to look on the bright side of things, don't be so doom and gloom. :D
 

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Leif,

I think you are misunderstanding the process here. The auratus that are coming in wouldn't normally come in otherwise. In order to get the pumilio, importers are forced to also order hundreds of auratus and red eyed tree frogs. Many of which will never leave the importers business - the demand is just not there. Many, or some say most, of these frogs may be doomed.

As far as the pumilio go, whether it be hundreds of dollars or 95, they are still quite high. It was only a couple of years ago that we were paying $25.

Getting that rare and elusive frog is not always "good" for the hobby. Outrageous prices and huge numbers of unwanted "not so rare frogs", in my opinion, is definetly not good for the hobby.

Again, just my opinion - take it or leave it.
 
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Do you think all these pumilio are really from farming??
Because to obtain all pumilio sold, they need a lot of good adult breeders......
 

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URBAN FROGZ said:
Do you think all these pumilio are really from farming??
Because to obtain all pumilio sold, they need a lot of good adult breeders......
Well, it depends on how they raise them. It's well known that pumilio are the most common dart in SA. I've heard reports that there are places where there are hundreds of them per acre. If they are raising them outdoors in areas like these, then they could all be farm raised.
 
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I do understand the process, but as long as there is a demand for the PDF's and other exotics their will be a supply. They sellers managed to tie the Auratus and RTF's into the Pumilio shipment, but without the Pumilio they would have made it here (or to other countries) anyway. That's the reason for the frog farm's. As for the Pums being $20-$25 dollars a few years ago, were those "farm-raised" or wild caught? If the Pums now are truly farm raised then I can see them higher priced than the wild caught ones. The price might go down on them but I don't think it will much. One of the reasons I decided to buy some Pums now is because of some of the posts I have read on this forum saying that the "farm-raised" are really wild caught. If that's the case, and these farms get caught doing it, I'm sure the regulating powers will stop these shipments immediatly.

Well, anyway, just my thoughts, could be wrong, good conversation though :D
 

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I think someone is a little naive about the process. I have it on good word, direct from an importers mouth, that in order to get pumilio, they were REQUIRED to order auratus. In fact, a certain ratio was required. 10 auratus for every 1 pumilio. Do the math. That's thousands of auratus. The sad things is, as mentioned before, that most do not leave the importer's warehouse. When the auratus come in, and refuse to eat, or have lesions, etc, they often get thrown in the freezer.

Auratus have already become a disposable frog.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Well, I have continued my research. I contacted a variety of company’s and individuals selling WC and farm raised auratus and pumilio. Not a lot of good information there. These people are quick to put each other down and unwilling to give up any solid information on their importers or how the process works. I also found out that none of them treat or really quarantine or examine their imports. Unfortunately the bottom line seems to be the main concern in all of these cases. I understand turning a profit is essential but ethics should play a larger role when dealing with living creatures. I would like to see more imported darts come in but not by larger reptile companies with lots of money to throw at them. I would pay higher prices to know who was handling my animals. Hopefully all of the new darts people received will thrive. If Glenn truly quarantined and treated his animals then he is about the only one I can find. That extra effort could make all the difference for the hobby.

-Richard
 

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Please trust me when I tell you that Glenn is not the only one doing this. Nor was he "first" as he has claimed a few times.

I'm not willing to out an importer, but there are only a few I am willing to deal with at this point. Really only one. And he follows a pattern of treatment and holding (before moving them on to the customer) that makes me feel a little better about it. Not a lot though.

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tuthelimit said:
... If Glenn truly quarantined and treated his animals then he is about the only one I can find. That extra effort could make all the difference for the hobby.
 

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importation/treatment

Ok, I've finally got to out myself as one of the people who succumbed to the pumilio imports. I decided to chance it and get a few frogs. I was also curious if the frogs that people had in a different prices varied in general health. So, I purchased a few frogs from Glenn at Seaside, and I also got a few from Xtreme Reptiles. I talked to Glenn, and he did quarentine these guys for atleast a week, if not more. He also treated with dewormer and baytril. As for Xtreme, they did neither.

The frogs I got from Glenn immediately were active, and the males were calling withing minutes of being put in their enclosures. I'm extremely satisfied with their over all appearance and health at this point. However, the frogs from Xtreme were not of this quality. Two of them were extremely thin, did not eat or move. The other three are a little more active, and witnessed atleast two of those eat, but they still are not to the standards of being comfortable with them. It does make a difference who you get these frogs from. I honestly think Glenn took his precautions to heart and is taking care of these guys.
 
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Thank you very much for the information, Kenya. Glenn contacted me quite a while ago, and really seemed interested in the health of his frogs. He really did try to provide the best environment possible for these guys. I am very happy that they are doing well for everyone that I know ordered from Glenn.
 
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Well fortunatly the frogs I got from xtreme reptiles are the opposite of what you described. I guess I just got lucky. :D

I wish I had the money to buy a bunch of expensive Pumilio from different places just to compare the quality. 8) J/K
 
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