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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a 36 gallon bowfront with a pair of Leucs that were purchased at the same time. Age-wise they are the same.

My question is in the growth comparison between the two. One seems to have almost doubled in size, while the other seems to be growing at a much slower rate. The tank is seeded with springtails, and fruitflies are fed everyday at the same time, using repashy -(spelling?) supplements. Once a week pinheads are substituted for FF. I know that both frogs are eating, as they both congregate at the same area of the tank everyday for feeding, and I've seen the smaller of the two eat.

Just hoping for a little clarification. And to calm my paranoia, could someone please give me a few examples of an aggressive/territorial stance? (I've seen them sitting next to each other like they were getting ready for a race, and other times sitting almost touching snouts. I have never seen any physical contact, so not sure what to make of this)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
was kinda thinking the same, will be posting some pictures for clarification in a few minutes.
 

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Out of curiosity how old are they? Any calling? What may look like aggression may be nothing more then romantic interest.

BTW tank size is perfect would love to see some pics. I really like bow fronts, they perfect for display tanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
ok, here's some pictures.

Frog Amphibian Organism Poison dart frog Leaf



Picture 1 is the frog in question, I call him Peanut :eek: Anyway, I placed the straight edge next to him and he didn't even flinch.


Amphibian Terrestrial animal Organism Adaptation Fire salamander

Picture 2 is of course the bigger, obviously healthy frog. This one wasn't cooperating for it's photo op :rolleyes:


I'll keep working, feeding time is at 5pm and they're good at congregating at the feed spot, so I'll try to lay the straight edge in advance.

thanks so far
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
To be honest, I'm not entirely sure of their age. The owner of the shop (the one with the knowledge but not the breeder) wasn't available. As far as calling, I haven't heard anything. I did play a recording without seeing any change or vocalization.

Is there a particular stance they will take when being aggressive or territorial or is it more of a physical display?
 

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Yikes, he looks really thin, I recommend paying much closer attention to him. And at 5/8"? How long have you had him? Could be a runt, could be stress from the tank - it looks a little too empty in there, but maybe its just me... Maybe a thick layer of leaf litter would help him feel more secure?

If it's bullying, you would see it - the smaller one gets chased around, jumped on, etc.

If this gets any worse though I highly recommend pulling him into quarantine, feeding him only as much as he is willing to eat at first, and try to bring him back to normal. Maybe fecals to Dr. Frye as well.
 

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You should really put some leaf litter in there. The tank floor feels kinda "bare bones" and doesn't provide much in the way of hiding spots for your frogs. Making them feel more secure should decrease any stress they're feeling which may be playing a role in the slow growth you're seeing.

To be honest, I'm not entirely sure of their age. The owner of the shop (the one with the knowledge but not the breeder) wasn't available.
From experience, let me tell you that generally shop owners know very very little. I've talked to owners who swear that dart frogs are their "specialty" and as we've talked I've realized that they know less than I did. I'd be very skeptical about ANYTHING that they tell you. It seems like half the time they'll make something up when they're asked a question, instead of saying "I'm not sure".
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I check on these guys several times a day, and the leaf litter is on its way (should have by Tuesday at the latest.) I do make sure to put FF in front of each frog and have been dusting everyday. I've had them for about a month now.

Is there a temp fix for the lack of leaf litter until it arrives? Would it be prudent to put him into quarantine now, before he gets any worse?

Really appreciate the help guys.
 

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Why not just gather some oak leaves outside and boil them? That's what I do, I don't buy leaves.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I didn't know that oak leaves could be a substitute. Going to take a run down to the park and gather a handful. Is there a specific length of time to boil the leaves for?
 

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5-10 minutes of a rolling boil will usually do the trick with leaves. I second what was said above. Separate the two, use a plastic sweater box type container, throw spag moss down and some leaves. Then feed him only a small amount of flies and visually watch. If there are more than a couple left when he stops eating that is too much. If he is eating and not gaining weight I would assume parasite. Get a fecal done.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I watch them every time I feed, he does seem to eat, but not with the same gusto as the larger one. I've noticed, starting yesterday and continuing today, that the smaller one seems to "hug" the ground. It's for maybe 10-15 minutes at a time, not consistently. I've noticed that he also likes to hang out at the water's edge, alot. As in, everytime I walk by, he's there. Are these habits indications of anything?
 

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How does the smaller one look when it's trying to get around? It's front legs look a bit weak and I wonder if the frog might not have a case of sls (spindly leg syndrome). In Leucomelas, froglets with sls can often get around, but not as efficiently as healthy froglets.

If this were the case, you can put a small piece of orange or banana in the viv to create a feeding station. The fruitflies will gather there and will lay eggs that are a source of nutritious maggots for the frogs.

Good luck with them, Richard.
 

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Good idea adding leaf litter that is really going to help. It will also give a place for the microfauna. What is the name of the repashy supplement you are using? Is it the Calcium + ICB? I would also recommend something that would climb the background. Some creeping fig would grow nice and fill it up offering some more hiding places for your frogs.

If you are hesitant to remove the frog at a minimum I would drain the pond area for now. I have never seen it but I have heard stories of aggression where the dominant frog will drown the weaker frog.

Luecs are a great first frog and are very hardy. once you get some meat on the little guys bones you will be a wiser and better frogger.

Good luck. P.S. overall I like viv real nice layout, just needs some more plants.
 

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Calcium plus is the new supplement name change. First the water pond is fine. You need more hides and adding leaf litter is essential in micofauna growth and a place for them to hide. Nice tank size however try to utilize hides more and add some creeping or oak leaves for the back. add a feeding station such as a drink cap with banana. That size tank is more enough size by adding the mentioned above your tank should be good
 

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IMHO I would separate them until the small one puts on a bit of weight. It does look to be a pair and I have had some pairs where the male will not eat as much with a female present, polite I guess :) But I would I would separate them for a little while (month or two) then put them back together.

Good luck.

Chris
 

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Hi Chris,

The smaller frog is very sickly and only about 1/2 inch in length. I don't think I know anyone else that would claim this to be a pair based on the tiny size and bad condition of one of the frogs.

I do agree separating the smaller frog would be best, though.

Richard.

IMHO I would separate them until the small one puts on a bit of weight. It does look to be a pair and I have had some pairs where the male will not eat as much with a female present, polite I guess :) But I would I would separate them for a little while (month or two) then put them back together.

Good luck.

Chris
 
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