[jbherpin]

I live in a neighborhood that was built in the early 70's. It is bordered by a wooded area that is probably a block deep, and 4 blocks long. On the other side of the street(across and away from housing) is a much deeper and bigger woodland. Both have vernal pools and were once home to many caudates before development destroyed adult populations and created a segmented/patchy distribution locally of fauna.

To get to the "meat" of the topic, is it considered unethical to take a few adults from about 15 mins away(in a less disturbed area) and repopulate my woods? The species were once common there and have disappeared over time due to development. Now the woods are stable and seem able to sustain the species again. Would it be wrong to bring some in hopes of reintroduction?

Thanks so much!

JBear

 

[Woodsman]

Hi Jbear,

As you know, the vernal pools are only a breeding site for most of the caudates that you're interested in, so you have to take the entire home range of the species you like to re-introduce into account when deciding if this is a good idea. Many salamanders have fairly large home ranges, which would need to be intact if there is any chance for success of a project like this in the long run.

That said, if there is a significant area surrounding all sides of the vernal pools, A small-scale reintroduction effort could be very successful. Local naturalists here on Staten Island undertook to try to reintroduce Spotted Salamanders to the Staten Island Greenbelt some years ago. About ten adults were released into a vernal pool area in the very early Spring. Now, years later, many adults are seen during night time surveys of the area.

If you decide to go ahead with such a project, just keep very good records and provide the records to an area natural history museum or parkland office. It would be important to researchers in the future to know that the re-introduced population wasn't strictly native.

Good luck, Richard.

I live in a neighborhood that was built in the early 70's. It is bordered by a wooded area that is probably a block deep, and 4 blocks long. On the other side of the street(across and away from housing) is a much deeper and bigger woodland. Both have vernal pools and were once home to many caudates before development destroyed adult populations and created a segmented/patchy distribution locally of fauna.

To get to the "meat" of the topic, is it considered unethical to take a few adults from about 15 mins away(in a less disturbed area) and repopulate my woods? The species were once common there and have disappeared over time due to development. Now the woods are stable and seem able to sustain the species again. Would it be wrong to bring some in hopes of reintroduction?

Thanks so much!

JBear

 

[jbherpin]

Beyond ethics, is it legal to reintroduce a native species? Perhaps with the permission of the local DNR, or is not not needed? Thanks so much!

JBear

 

[Ed]

It depends.. is that the closest existing population? Ideally in these cases, you want to choose the absolute closest population to the release sites as this reduces the risk of a locally established virus from devestating the any other herps, insects or fish found in that site. It turns out that viruses like ranavirus are often found at a site in which it coevolved with the animals in that region but translocating the virus results in issues.

Typically most states require permits to translocate and release animals.

Ed

 

[jbherpin]

It depends.. is that the closest existing population? Ideally in these cases, you want to choose the absolute closest population to the release sites as this reduces the risk of a locally established virus from devestating the any other herps, insects or fish found in that site. It turns out that viruses like ranavirus are often found at a site in which it coevolved with the animals in that region but translocating the virus results in issues.

Typically most states require permits to translocate and release animals.

Ed

My dad grew up in the area I live in. When he was a young man(like 18 or so), he used to find various species here. People of low class came in and began using the woods as a private(illegal) dumping ground for trash, tires, metal, etc. That pretty much ruined the habitat and effectively eliminated the salamanders. Some neighbors and I have cleaned about 90% of the woods over the last 5 years, and now we are seeing breeding activity.

Ref: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/newts-salamanders/69952-backyard-find.html

The salamanders I want to reintroduce are in the same woods, just on the other side(if that makes sense?). I would have thought that the sals would be basically the same as those that were here but driven out and away.

I thank you guys for your help and advice!

JBear

 

[thedude]

It isnt unethical, however, if you guys removed the pollutants and restore the area a bit than they should return all on their own. Thats not to say you couldnt give them a little push, just be sure the area can actually sustain them now.

Ive done several low scale projects like this around my area, and ideally once they start coming back it only take a couple years for the population to rebound quite well.

 

[jbherpin]

What species(') did you work with? Thanks for sharing!

JBear

 

[thedude]

I mostly worked with restoring very depleted populations of Ambystoma macrodactylum and A. gracile, and Rana aurora came back as a result of restoration (which was a nice surprise). mostly what I did was remove invasive bull frogs and various plants, and replant with natives. This year I restored a straightened stream and added woody debris to help create small breeding pools. oddly enough, instead of the typical Ambystoma species using it like I expected, Taricha granulosa established there instead.

 

[jbherpin]

What was done with the Bullfrogs? The only thing in those woods is Garter snakes, Ribbon snakes, and now, A. texanum and potentially A. laterale.

So this would be a legal thing to take [native]animals from a few mins away and bring them to my wooded side?

JBear

 

[thedude]

What was done with the Bullfrogs?

JBear

they were killed and left in the area they were found (no pathogen transport). theres quite a bit of wildlife around me so the bodies were gone several hours later, as were the tads and eggs.

 

[jbherpin]

How effective were your methods? It seems some tads would be surviving and leaving the water. Are you returning to subsequently "clean up the rest"? In what year is the work you are doing? What I mean is, when did you first perform the removal of frogs and plants? Thanks!

JBear

 

[Taron]

I use to breed texas horned lizards for the state of oklahoma from kansas stock. The reintroductions went well. However this was done through the state parks and it was cb babies that were realesed.



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[thedude]

pretty effective actually. This was just a buddy and I going out and catching them every other weekend in winter and spring, and we managed to eliminate all adults, juveniles, and most froglets from a pretty large pond in 2 years. That spring, the species I mentioned before started returning. now we go less often, but when we do there arent any frogs, and we leave with a bucket of 80+ tads.

As for invasive plants, it all depends on the species. At this point only one species is still posing a problem, Reed Canary Grass. Its going to take a while because my method of eliminating it is keeping it cut low while native cuttings and transplants grow large enough to shade it out. The other plants arent really a problem anymore. The nice thing is now there are way less flies and mosquitos.

This all started about 4 years ago, and because Ive been busy with college and other things, I havent kept up on it as much as Id like to.

How effective were your methods? It seems some tads would be surviving and leaving the water. Are you returning to subsequently "clean up the rest"? In what year is the work you are doing? What I mean is, when did you first perform the removal of frogs and plants? Thanks!

JBear

 

[jbherpin]

...now we go less often, but when we do there arent any frogs, and we leave with a bucket of 80+ tads... The nice thing is now there are way less flies and mosquitos...

I thought you were leaving the dead frogs. What are you doing with the(80+) tads? I am in support of local MGT of forests/woods/waterways/ponds/vernal pools/ etc., but... I am not trying to cause a rift at all, I just want clarity, and advice on legality and effectiveness before I go on. I truly thank you!

JBear

 

[thedude]

they are put in a pan and left in a forest nearby, where they are gone by morning i should have specified the invasive plants and restoration is on mine and my neighbors property, and the bull frog removal is at a golf course down the street. they dont care that we remove them, but i doubt they would want tadpoles left all over their lawn...

no problem! I love talking about this stuff. I had a 2 hour conversation with a guy named Jerry Novak at microcosm about bullfrog removal

I thought you were leaving the dead frogs. What are you doing with the(80+) tads? I am in support of local MGT of forests/woods/waterways/ponds/vernal pools/ etc., but... I am not trying to cause a rift at all, I just want clarity, and advice on legality and effectiveness before I go on. I truly thank you!

JBear

 

[tclipse]

I can't speak for Ohio, but in VA it is legal to collect 5 of a given non-listed herp specie for "private/personal use" (home keeping).

It is also legal to re-release them within 30 days given that
1) they are returned to the area of capture by Sept. 15 to allow them time to prepare for winter
2) animals from different areas are kept separately to avoid potential spread of disease
3) they appear healthy

Reading between the lines, it would be legal in VA to collect 5 of each specie at a time and immediately re-release them into the same forest they were captured in.. check your state laws, I'd guess they're pretty similar. Also make sure you aren't moving anything that's state-endangered (or federally, but that goes without saying).