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pumilio froglet methods

4540 Views 43 Replies 13 Participants Last post by  Ed
So I would like to hear every pumilio breeders methods of handling the froglets once spotted....Is it written in stone to let froglets stay in viv with parent past 3 months, or do you pull as soon as he developes hunting skills?

As for me....second method is my choice as of late...I have been having greater success transfering froglets into the froglet headquarters once he continually makes his way down to hunt after maybe 2-3 weeks. Reason is - I actually noticed several parent pums pinning down froglets during feeding,although froglets posed no threat towards parents fruitflies,but when all on floor it seemed like parents competed and therefore punished froglets for being near their food and eventually killing them all off....ever since I started switching them over to a 12-12-18 viv rich w microfauna they have all been thriving and looking good so far...

Please feel free to add your two pesos and sharing your own method....
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I used to pull mine early but I have had much higher success leaving them in until 3-4 months. In fact, I won't ship pum froglets until 5-6 months minimum b/c I am too nervous, they seem so fragile.

In regards to reported cases of aggression, could these instances be an example of parents killing weak or unfit offspring? I know this occurs with other animals in the wild quite often.
" totally get everyones points and respect tgem to the fullest....but how does a wild pum froglet grow up on his own and reprduce?

If I were to say that I have a good amount of froglets that i pulled at a month and some reached adulthood and some are currently at 6+ months, would that just be luck ?"

I don't know if its luck or not, but the consensus from most of the successful pumilio breeders seems to point to some advantages and hightened success when keeping the froglets with the parents. I don't think anyone is going to tell you to never pull froglets early, its just whatever works for you.

In a natural setting I would imagine the froglets do stay in the general vicintity of the parents or are in the vicinity of other adults until reaching an age at when they begin to breed. It is difficult to say for sure, but my epxerience certainly seems to indicate that at least some skills are learned from the parents or other adults in the wild.
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And after reading Ed's link, this study also seems to point to the potential of learned skills...

thanks Ed, interesting...
I also opt to leave many of the froglets to grow out a good time w parents, but the majority I have pulled early and place in a microfauna rich vive were mainly from very aggressive( feeding) parents who continually displayed aggressive behavior tiwards every froglet and even killing off many.....

To follow Mark's comment, I have not heard or seen this either...

Cairo, your observations would lead me to ask the following:

How big are the tanks in these situations? Are they heavily planted, with leaf litter, hiding spots, etc? Is there plenty of food (i.e. regular feeding, microfauna, etc...)?

The behavior you are seeing is something I would expect from an animal that was not getting enough food or didn't have adequate space. I'm not saying that is the case here, but those are scenarios that would potentially cause adults to go after their offspring.
Has anyone ever put purchased young pumilios in with a pair of adults of the same morph?

I have heard from a couple experianced sources that pums seem to do better in small viv set-ups than in plastic grow-out containers, even with leaf litter and springs.
Phender, there are several risks with doing this. One, either group could be carrying parasites or illnesses that could be passed on to the tank mates causing helath issues or death. Two, it could cause fighting or stress resulting in malnourishment or death. Three, if they are breeding it could interupt the breeding and/or caring for tads. I'm sure there are some other possibilities that I may be leaving out. All that being said, you could mix them and they might be fine, but I would not risk it.
"keep all my obligates in 18-24s and up. I usually will even yse a combination of hardy and easy rotting leaf litter...of course one for frog security other for springtails to feed on and that I havent had issues with. All my pums are nice and filled up. Caucheros, esperanzas and my almirantes are the ones displaying this agression. I mean, on one instance, the female was aon a brom in the cup literally pinning the froglet under I saw it when she hopped away.....then she drowned a second one in the higher brom.....They seem to display very alpha likebehavior and its move out of the way during feeding or you get runed over.
Ill snap a few pics of vivs..."

I have worked with Almirante and Cauchero and haven't seen anything like this. Perhaps you have some really dominant frogs. BTW, I'll take some Esperanzas...
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I used to always pull my froglets but I found that I have higher success rate when leaving them in for 2-4 months. If I noticed a lot started dying off, I would pull them as you have. Many of the approaches in the hobby are based on experience and not a manual or rules...if you found more success with pulling them, I won't tell you not to. Plus, I wouldn't want to stand around wondering while my esperanza froglets got killed either...

One of the first pieces of advice I got from an older frogger 9 or 10 years ago were the phrases...what works for me or what I've found...much better than claiming to know the one and only seems to apply in this siutation, what works for one might not work for another
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I think it would be almost impossible to get a definitive answer without spending a lot of time in the field studying the interactions, which I think would be very difficult. Even if that study was done, would it be conclusive, and would it translate into frogs in captive situations? Probably I think that your approach will depend on several factors; the behavior of your frogs, environment, diet, population density, and observations (to name a few).

Cairo, like I said, its what works for you. If you are successfully breeding obligates and are having success with pulling froglets early then others will try it too. But if what they are doing is already working they will be less inclined to take the risk. Obviously there are other motivations to pull froglets early, aside from the safety of the frogs, namely quicker sales for breeders. To some people this won't matter, but to some who do this as a source of income this quite possibly may motivate them to try.

If you want to try to get a better picture, start a poll and ask people when they pull froglets and what their success rate is. Obvioulsy, the results will be variable (I suspect highly variable), difficult to verify, and subject to observation. In other words, the only way someone knows there is a froglet in the tank is that they see it, so at that point they guess age. Also if a froglet morphs out and dies before the owner can see it that froglet wouldn't get included into their success rate...just some thoughts, but it seems it will be difficult to get a definitive answer but I would be interested to see the results...
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