I mean who really knows? Imo, pums in the wild lay eggs,rear them as long as needed( morphing) and hit the road and it is froglet on its own....unless out there they have some sort of momma bear and cub habbits and hang around w offspring until juvie stages......I seriously doubt it... For mom it. Is stick around and become the meal....as for dad, fertilize eggs and off to tge next girl... So why would that be any different in somewhat a controlled aetting where predatirs are removed??? I see it plain and simple, if a froglet can manage to grow out in the wild from day one....it sure as heck can manage in a ice little viv....if Im totally off please do correct me
pumilio froglet methods
So I would like to hear every pumilio breeders methods of handling the froglets once spotted....Is it written in stone to let froglets stay in viv with parent past 3 months, or do you pull as soon as he developes hunting skills?
As for me....second method is my choice as of late...I have been having greater success transfering froglets into the froglet headquarters once he continually makes his way down to hunt after maybe 2-3 weeks. Reason is - I actually noticed several parent pums pinning down froglets during feeding,although froglets posed no threat towards parents fruitflies,but when all on floor it seemed like parents competed and therefore punished froglets for being near their food and eventually killing them all off....ever since I started switching them over to a 12-12-18 viv rich w microfauna they have all been thriving and looking good so far...
Please feel free to add your two pesos and sharing your own method....
As for me....second method is my choice as of late...I have been having greater success transfering froglets into the froglet headquarters once he continually makes his way down to hunt after maybe 2-3 weeks. Reason is - I actually noticed several parent pums pinning down froglets during feeding,although froglets posed no threat towards parents fruitflies,but when all on floor it seemed like parents competed and therefore punished froglets for being near their food and eventually killing them all off....ever since I started switching them over to a 12-12-18 viv rich w microfauna they have all been thriving and looking good so far...
Please feel free to add your two pesos and sharing your own method....
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Dont get me wrong though..I dont just spot a newly morphed froglet and aet him into a froglet tanks that instant. Im talking more like....3-4 weeks. After tgey develop hunting skills or better yet, simply learn how to recognize food and be bold enough to go down to the floor and chase it.... For some reason, all my pums seem to compete w offspring as soon as they make their way down....I even found a fem pum in a center brom cup pinning froglet until he drowned....so far, all my froglets have cleared 4-5 months in froglet tank no problem....but its not the case for everyone....
I totally get everyones points and respect tgem to the fullest....but how does a wild pum froglet grow up on his own and reprduce?
If I were to say that I have a good amount of froglets that i pulled at a month and some reached adulthood and some are currently at 6+ months, would that just be luck ?
If I were to say that I have a good amount of froglets that i pulled at a month and some reached adulthood and some are currently at 6+ months, would that just be luck ?
If I may mention...some adult one having bred already....
I also opt to leave many of the froglets to grow out a good time w parents, but the majority I have pulled early and place in a microfauna rich vive were mainly from very aggressive( feeding) parents who continually displayed aggressive behavior tiwards every froglet and even killing off many.....then again, it is the beauty of this hobby qhen methods and pisibilities are endless and in a way, theres a little room for innovation.....although, there is nothing innovative about my method, it might eventually prove to be something to consider for some froggers who have had similar issues. If you know your froglets dont stand a chance around aggresive parents, then why not create and practice a solution...?
I keep all my obligates in 18-24s and up. I usually will even yse a combination of hardy and easy rotting leaf litter...of course one for frog security other for springtails to feed on and that I havent had issues with. All my pums are nice and filled up. Caucheros, esperanzas and my almirantes are the ones displaying this agression. I mean, on one instance, the female was aon a brom in the cup literally pinning the froglet under water...as I saw it when she hopped away.....then she drowned a second one in the higher brom.....They seem to display very alpha likebehavior and its move out of the way during feeding or you get runed over.I also opt to leave many of the froglets to grow out a good time w parents, but the majority I have pulled early and place in a microfauna rich vive were mainly from very aggressive( feeding) parents who continually displayed aggressive behavior tiwards every froglet and even killing off many.....
To follow Mark's comment, I have not heard or seen this either...
Cairo, your observations would lead me to ask the following:
How big are the tanks in these situations? Are they heavily planted, with leaf litter, hiding spots, etc? Is there plenty of food (i.e. regular feeding, microfauna, etc...)?
The behavior you are seeing is something I would expect from an animal that was not getting enough food or didn't have adequate space. I'm not saying that is the case here, but those are scenarios that would potentially cause adults to go after their offspring.
Ill snap a few pics of vivs...
Haha. Soon
Honestly, like I just told somebody else...nowhere in the viv or in panama have I seen momma pum walking around the forest with a group of baby pums trailing her as ducklings....its more like done my part off you go! These frogs are wired to breed when reaching the correct age and to feed as soon as they see prey....I agree. That the parents really serve no benefit..... I have noticed more consistent breeding when parents are in a frogletless viv as well as they will make good use of axels and cups where froglets before came out from.I'm not entirely sure what benefit the parents provide the young that makes it beneficial to leave young in the vivarium with them. We're talking about a pretty basic life form here. There's no mother's milk or home schooling. It seems logical that a parent would see a developing juvenile as a competitor for food and future mates.
However, I've only seen aggression towards a juvenile from my male Man Creek, which as it turns out, was spawning with the female at the time.
I personally leave my juvies in with the parents for as long as I possibly can, but for the most part I think this is one of those topics that is largely clouded in myth.
Well I was being sarcastic about the duckling ways.....but my believe is that when it is time for the frog to call, he will call, and when the female hits a stage when to ovulate then she will as I just cannot see them watching and learning from adults in viv.....I dont think a friend and felliw well known and established obligate breeder wants me to say his name, but he brought it to my attention that it is also the method he handles froglets by and it is all he has to say because I know for a fact alot of us have and some only purchase frogs from him, and I dont think Ive ever purchased a healthier frog from anyone else in all seriousness....he agreed that froglets arent being breastfed, or all maternity traits.......and it is simply wiring of these animals that get them through every stage and help them thrive....all that is available from parents to froglets is potential aggression...
My chocolate lab barks like a turkey(seriously-I think hes half chimp) and not like his dad and he is the biggest stud ever and has produced the biggest pups! Now my parrot did learn how to vocalize and some chords....quite frankly, The wrong chords, bc according to him I am a *** and looser as it is what he yells out everytime I walk by his cage! But funny thing is that, he has yet to deliver one little bird after 20 fem combos...whos the *** now??? Haha...cant make a legit arguement with ya as you are talking birds and not frogs....now if I read a confirmed scientific analyzis stating the same for amphians as to that of birds ,cats,dogs and butterflies.....then itd be smarter for me to shut my trap!!! Haha
One of the pairs who motivated me to start this thread is currently in a 150+ heavy heavy planted viv....and this morning, i fed them, three froglets were opposite side of established feeding spot....mom comes out from the highest brom and jumps down to the floor...gyess where she landed???
Exactly....is there even a way to confirm something like this? Ed....sometimes I do believe they can learn as I am left wondering everytime after feeding many of my frogs...how is it that everytime I walk by my tanks emptyhanded just observing,they are nowhere to be seen; .........yet, when I walk by with a dusting ff cup, they are all standing in the exact same spot I usually drop ffs on???? Just like a smart dog....are they conditioned to do this everytine or simply have naturaly learned this habbit??? My dilema is that I just dont kniw....and how can I conclude such thing?
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