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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am in the planning stages for my first build, a 30 gal. tall; 24 in. x 12 in. x 24 in. I want to put in a waterfall, a fogger, a small 2 gallon pond, and a mist system. The fogger would be just for a light fog at the top of the waterfall for appearances only, not for humidity. I would like for the water to go from the pond, through a bulkhead, into a canister filter located in the stand under the tank, and then the filtered water to supply the waterfall, fogger, and mister. I was thinking about using the Mist King starter kit, a reptifogger, and not sure what kind or size of canister filter. The waterfall and fogger would be on constantly, and the mister would be on a timer. I know I would have to build a manifold and have the timer control a solenoid for the mister, I'm just having a hard time with the specifics. Anyone have any ideas?
 

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Ken,

ill hope this isnt for pdfs and this is your first build. if this is the route you choose, the reptifogger has too small of a res to hold enough water to produce fog all day (and to be honest, not sure how long the fogger will last with a 100% duty cycle?). so you would need at least one res that will supply RO or distilled water to the misting and the fogger. these can be set up with bulk heads in a bucket and using 1/4" pex to the fogger and mister. make sure your bulk head in the fogger res is sealed well as there will be a bit of head pressure from your bucket res. the water fall should be on its own system and not worked into the misting or fogging. no manifolds, or electronics needed (well other than marty's misting timer that comes with the kit)
 

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Your also going to have to figure out how to get the tank to drain as all of that water is going to saturate your substrate which can lead to problems as well.

I'm not sure why you want to run a fogger 24/7 unless you are attempting to set up a cloud forest system but if that is the case, you will also need high air flow.

Ed
 

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The repti fogger should be placed on a timer. If you run that thing 24/7 or too much it will be broken in a week. You cannot filter water to all of those things. A mister has its own bucket and a repti fogger has a bottle. Both things need distilled water. Sounds like your 1st build, you might want to wait on the water feature as well as the pond, 2 gallons of water is a lot, and the frogs dont need it they arent good swimmers (they might drown). However you need to have access to your water feature and a drainge area. What type of BG and FB are you going with?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Hadn't planned on putting any PDFs in, want to experiment a little before I torture any frogs, just plants and a killifish. I'll be using a GS/silicone/cocofiber background with an egg crate false bottom so the substrate won't get too wet, with crossover between the drainage area and the pond. Sounds like I'll have to delete the fogger, unless there is a fogger out there that can run 10-12 hours a day. I just wanted a low volume of fog to trickle down along with the waterfall for appearances, not anything close to a cloud forest. I was trying to find a way to just use one reservoir for everything because of the limited amount of space under a tank of this size. Would it be possible to plumb one five gallon bucket with separate bulkheads, so that it could act as a reservoir for the waterfall and the mister? Could the water from the pond go into a canister filter to get rid of fish by products and whatever has drained from the substrate and then empty into the five gallon bucket, and then the waterfall and mister draw from that? Or would the water still be too dirty for the mister and/or fogger even though it started out as distilled?
 

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A false bottom doesn't ensure that the substrate won't be soaked all the time particularly if you are using a fogger. If there is a fairly constant flow of mist (water vapor) then the substrate is going to experience a constant influx of water.

It is also very difficult to prevent water from wicking out of the stream/waterfall and into the substrates resulting in a loss of water from the reservoir (potentially resulting in dry pumps), and saturation of the substrate.

Ed
 

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Drained water cannot go in the mister. Once that water goes thru anything it is no longer considered distilled, and it will no longer be pure. Your mister will break for reasons other than mineral deposites. You can syphon the water out if you dont have room for the canister and you don't need a big bucket for the mister.
 

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If you plan on running a pump for the waterfall, omit the canister filter altogether. Run a pump with a filter on the unit and make it accessible for monthly or bi-monthly maintenance. The reason being is that a canister will be much more difficult to plump and a lot more difficult to fine tune for water flow and such. An in-tank pump is 10x better than a canister for this application.

As state before, a central reservoir should not serve as a source of water for all those units. The water is now contaminated and would have to be re-filtered through specific units before it can be used again.
 

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let me see if i can help... the reason we say you can not use the sump to run the misting, is because the fine hole the mist head uses will become clogged as soon as any little particle ran through the misting system... this i why you can NOT draw from the sump through the misting. ed also is trying to help you with your substrate as well. if you plan on having anything other than gravel as a substrate, you will more than likely over saturate and nothing will grow in there nor would be hospitable for any animal including the fish. this is because the water leaching through the substrate and will contaminate the water as well, it will be cloudy and have a lot of tanis. when planning the water feature, try and separate the water from touching anything with soil. (ive personally made this mistake in the past and it was a waste of time and money and had to be rebuilt)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
So, if I keep the pond and waterfall, that would be one system - power head and filter. Then a separate system for evacuating the water that has drained under the false bottom - either a siphon or drill and put in a bulkhead. And then a separate mist king system. How is the substrate going to get saturated when the only water touching it will be from the mistking? The waterfall will only be going into the pond.
 

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But what if the mist/substrate system and the pond/waterfall system are separate like this:http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/73620-frogfevers-55g-display-tank-build.html?
But what if the mist/substrate system and the pond/waterfall system are separate like this:http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/par...ank-build.html?
You have to deal with the increased water input into the tank... a bulkhead is a good start (unless you are going to be really careful about siphoning as needed).
If the two areas are sealed off from one another you need to be able to prevent wicking from one area to the next (and all it takes is a dying leaf or piece of bark or wood) and lost of water volume. If you want to prevent saturation of the substrate you have to prevent the water level from ever getting high enough to touch the substrate (which is why wicking/splashing are an issue) as that will result in saturated substrate. If the two water areas are seperate, then you have to also account for water loss to the pump area from splashing/wicking. If the two areas are connected then you need to be able to accomedate the extra water from the misting (and again if still go with a fogger) to prevent flooding.

If the substrate becomes saturated, then you will end up with anerobic decompositon occuring in the substrate and consequential pollution of the water which can result in hydrogen sulphide dissolved in the water column.

I'm not saying it can't be done but you need to pay attention to the details. As an example, if you have a background that has organics close to the water fall, the water from splashes can end up on the substrate side of the pool. There are a lot of things to mess with before you get it right. In my experience, you often end up having to repeatedly adjust the water flow through the pump (particularly during breaking in) as you can easily get too little or too much flow (and even slow flows can splash a surprising amount).

Some comments

Ed
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
So I should make sure that is a low flow waterfall, more of a trickle. What about a fogger like the Youtube vid? Are there any exterior foggers like the Kaz brand ones that can hold up to 10-12 hours running at a time, and are adjustable to a very low volume?
 

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So I should make sure that is a low flow waterfall, more of a trickle. What about a fogger like the Youtube vid? Are there any exterior foggers like the Kaz brand ones that can hold up to 10-12 hours running at a time, and are adjustable to a very low volume?
Having a fogger on ½ the day will flood your viv too. Just put it on a timer thru out the day.
 

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Soil can become saturated simply by Fog (Moist Air) and lack of Air circulation.

Simply put...Think of the Soil as a Rag.. You spill 1/4 of a Cup of water and use the Rag to wipe it up...If you leave it on the counter it will dry..However if you place the wet rag inside a zip lock storage bag it will not dry.

A Fogger although it does not seem as if it puts out a lot of water..it does. Two Gallons of Water is still 2 Gallons of Water regardless if it is from a Misting System in a Minute or from a Fogger in 10 Hours..

Certain Plants must be dried out between watering..meaning the leaves or exposed roots must dry out using dry warm air...No Moisture in it..a 10/12 Day with constant humid air and poor air circulation will kill them fast.

No matter how hard you try you can never keep the water from a false bottom and water feature separate...and Water from inside the Tank should never be used in misting system hooked to a water feature. The Smallest particle of debris will clog it..You can say that that you made sure the land does not come in contact and all seams are sealed and no dirt looks to come in contact..however unless you train your frogs to use "showers" to wash off before jumping in their nice little pool or make sure your fruit flies do not take a swim and drown your gonna get dirt in the water and eventually a clogged misting system. Keep the water feature and Fogging/Misting supplies separate. Short of installing a RO System per tank it ain't gonna work..

I use filtered not distilled / RO water in My tanks as it is my opinion that is more natural.. So what I need to wipe the Glass more often. I am not looking for crystal clear water to watch stuff to swim in. I am not an expert but I believe that Natural water is more beneficial for tadpole survival..so what if its a light brown with natural nutrients inside..
 

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So I should make sure that is a low flow waterfall, more of a trickle. What about a fogger like the Youtube vid? Are there any exterior foggers like the Kaz brand ones that can hold up to 10-12 hours running at a time, and are adjustable to a very low volume?

Take an airline hose and set it up to drain water through it and then direct that hose on some different things (like the back of a spoon) and see how far the droplets splash. Even a small trickle can splash pretty far with consequences on how much water is retained for the pump and how much ends up elsewhere.
 
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