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In the begining I had no information and now I have so much that I am totally confused. :? (Well if I really had too much info I wouldn't have any questions would I :wink: )

LOL, can anybody try to simplify things for me? I have a 20 gallon long tank that I wish to convert to a Viv for a pair of D. Azureus. (The species that I first fell in love with although recently I am so tempted by so many others, :wink: ) so all of my questions would be with this in mind.


Here are the things I am sure I want, (unless someone here tells me that this is a bad idea...) A vivarium, a pair of D. Azureus, a water feature, a fogging system, apropriate plantings.


Here is what I have already an empty used tank, some selaginella, some masdevillas, and a couple of adiantums. and a million questions.


I realize that everyone has there own favorite ways of doing things and that sometimes these things are perfectly opposed, but somehow I have failed to find the common ground to permit me to pursue my quest. Please forgive the long post I am always way too wordy but I am trying to give you enough info to understand my problems/questions. :roll:



1. I do not have glass cutting capabilities so putting a hole in the tank for drainage is not a possibility. Does this present a terminal problem or do I use a filter or do I simply siphon off water periodically and replace it?



2. Since the tank is long rather than high should I forget about doing a false bottom and if so how do I manage a small stream/pond effect?



3. I do not have a lid and was considering purchasing a glass for the top. I am fairly handy with a dremel and can do a fair amount of woodworking so I could create a wooden frame to place the glass in, but, would it be better to set the glass directly onto the tank?


4. How long should the frogs be quarantined to shoe boxes before being added to the new tank? (IOW... can I buy the frogs before the tank is ready if I find a really good deal, :lol: )


My list of ?'s goes on and on but I will stop here for the moment and thank each of you in advance for your help. (I don't want to wear out my welcome :lol: )

Jan

Don't forget, "He who dies with the most frogs wins!" :wink:
 

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Ok, i'll try to help ya a bit:

1. A drainage hole is not needed, worst case you may need to sophon some water out, but I have not had to do that.

2. First tank keep it simple, and just pickup some pea gravel from lowes or home depot. Then put in about 3-4inches. It wil get a bit heavy, but unless you plan on moving it a lot its no biggy.

3. Just buy a normal all glass lid for $15 or so. Then you can get some plastic sewing mesh and cut holes in the plastic part of the lid. Then cover it with the sewing mesh.

4. Quarantine, them for about a month, it may be best to keep them seperate.

Here is best advice I was given to start:

Start simple! no water feature, no mister, no fogger. Worry about the frogs and food first, then make a better tank later. Start culturing Fruit Flies at least a month in advance to get the hang of it.

For a simple tank:
Gravel with dirt or leaf litter on top, get a pothos, and a piece of drift wood, maybe even a small water dish.


Wildtymes said:
In the begining I had no information and now I have so much that I am totally confused. :? (Well if I really had too much info I wouldn't have any questions would I :wink: )

LOL, can anybody try to simplify things for me? I have a 20 gallon long tank that I wish to convert to a Viv for a pair of D. Azureus. (The species that I first fell in love with although recently I am so tempted by so many others, :wink: ) so all of my questions would be with this in mind.


Here are the things I am sure I want, (unless someone here tells me that this is a bad idea...) A vivarium, a pair of D. Azureus, a water feature, a fogging system, apropriate plantings.


Here is what I have already an empty used tank, some selaginella, some masdevillas, and a couple of adiantums. and a million questions.


I realize that everyone has there own favorite ways of doing things and that sometimes these things are perfectly opposed, but somehow I have failed to find the common ground to permit me to pursue my quest. Please forgive the long post I am always way too wordy but I am trying to give you enough info to understand my problems/questions. :roll:



1. I do not have glass cutting capabilities so putting a hole in the tank for drainage is not a possibility. Does this present a terminal problem or do I use a filter or do I simply siphon off water periodically and replace it?



2. Since the tank is long rather than high should I forget about doing a false bottom and if so how do I manage a small stream/pond effect?



3. I do not have a lid and was considering purchasing a glass for the top. I am fairly handy with a dremel and can do a fair amount of woodworking so I could create a wooden frame to place the glass in, but, would it be better to set the glass directly onto the tank?


4. How long should the frogs be quarantined to shoe boxes before being added to the new tank? (IOW... can I buy the frogs before the tank is ready if I find a really good deal, :lol: )


My list of ?'s goes on and on but I will stop here for the moment and thank each of you in advance for your help. (I don't want to wear out my welcome :lol: )

Jan

Don't forget, "He who dies with the most frogs wins!" :wink:
 
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Discussion Starter #3
Water features without a false bottom are very difficult as water has a tendancy to find ways of escaping containment. If you use an external(walgreens fogger) or internal fogger in a water dish you would be fine. If you buy one of those premolded waterfalls(however i dont usually find ones usful with darts) you could do a waterfeature easily without a false bottom. Just make sure that the substrate your using has good drainage so it wont remain soggy. You can keep animals in quarantine tanks for a while especially if they are smaller size.
 

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Here's one froggers opinions.

1. I do not have glass cutting capabilities so putting a hole in the tank for drainage is not a possibility. Does this present a terminal problem or do I use a filter or do I simply siphon off water periodically and replace it?

You can do any one you want to. Whatever is easiest for you.

2. Since the tank is long rather than high should I forget about doing a false bottom and if so how do I manage a small stream/pond effect?

Using the pea gravel sort of acts as a false bottom. The stream effect can be tricky either way. It will depend on how good you are at making tanks. I would probably skip the stream, but if you want it bad, work on it.

3. I do not have a lid and was considering purchasing a glass for the top. I am fairly handy with a dremel and can do a fair amount of woodworking so I could create a wooden frame to place the glass in, but, would it be better to set the glass directly onto the tank?

It would be much easier to set the glass on top. I agree with the post of using the All-Glass lid from a pet store. The plastic back can easily be drilled or cut to make ventilation ( a must if you're going to put that orchid in there)

4. How long should the frogs be quarantined to shoe boxes before being added to the new tank? (IOW... can I buy the frogs before the tank is ready if I find a really good deal, :lol: )

Since you have no other frogs, you don't have to quarantine them, but if you're tank isn't ready then you can shoebox them until it is. I have to say that many people keep there frogs in a shoebox at first so that it is easier for them to find food and easier for you to keep an eye on 'em.
Don't forget to to learn how to culture flies. It is THEEEE most important thing when keepind darts. If your cultures crash or aren't producing it takes a minimun of 2 weeks to get things going again. You're frogs will not survive 2 weeks without food and you can't get flies easily from a petstore.


-Ben
 
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Discussion Starter #5
Re: Points I need to clarify....

kyle1745 said:
Ok, i'll try to help ya a bit:


2. First tank keep it simple, and just pickup some pea gravel from lowes or home depot. Then put in about 3-4inches. It wil get a bit heavy, but unless you plan on moving it a lot its no biggy.

3. Just buy a normal all glass lid for $15 or so. Then you can get some plastic sewing mesh and cut holes in the plastic part of the lid. Then cover it with the sewing mesh.

Here is best advice I was given to start:

Start simple! no water feature, no mister, no fogger. Worry about the frogs and food first, then make a better tank later.

For a simple tank:
Gravel with dirt or leaf litter on top, get a pothos, and a piece of drift wood, maybe even a small water dish.


Thanks Kyle!!! I am grateful for your help! I don't want you to think that I am being argumentative or failing to heed your advice but this is part of my dilemma. The tank that I build will be the ONLY one that I get to have for many years to come. (Unless by some miracle my husband becomes enamored of this hobby and that is about as likely to happen as every person on this board hitting the lottery for ten million a piece tomorrow! :wink: ) Therefore I am trying to put as much into my first tank as I possibly can based on the presumption that this will be my only one!

I am truly not trying to bite off more than I can chew, (although in reality that may be what I am doing), and am aware that I am making things more difficult for myself because of this, but I want everyone to know that my first and foremost consideration IS for the health and welfare of the frogs. That is partly why I don't want the 'bare minimum' for them. The other part is purely selfish. I am willing to put whatever extra effort into this project that is required to achieve my goals and if that means no frogs for another six months or so while I am working the bugs out of things then so be it... (well... fogs sooner is better but I can force myself to wait :wink: ) I can sacrifice the fogger and wasn't planning on a mister but i would dearly love at least a small stream into a little 'pond'. (Puddle? LOL)

One last request for clarification. When you say buy a 'normal all glass lid' are you referring to something from a pet shop/aquarium store? or getting glass from something like HD or Lowes'?

Thanks!
 

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The All-Glass lid is made by the company All-Glass. They make aquariums as well as the lids. You can also use a Penn-Plax. I believe that they make them as well. The 20 long is a standard sized aquarium, so either should work. These should be available from almost any pet store. Even pet supply places that sell fish food should have these.
As for your set-up. A lot of what you want to do is going to be dependant on how you want to do them. I have seen beautiful tanks that were very simple and some that are very complex. It's a matter of taste and how much you want to work at it before and after set-up. As for the health of the frogs. Many breeders keep there tanks in very simpe 10 gal tanks with pairs. I've even seen one with almost no plants except a hunk of moss, a small pool on one side (pea gravel piled high on one side and low on the other) and a coco-hut for breeding. The frogs (tincs) were healthy and horny. So they obviously found their surrondings romantic enough. It's obvious that your tank will be much more for your enjoyment than for just the frogs, so once again do as you please. As long as the basic requirements are met, the frogs will be happy.

-Ben Zomer
 
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we're in the same boat

Wildtymes,

You sound like you're exactly where I was 2 months ago. An empty 20-long and a sudden interest in dart frogs. I share your sentiment about putting the best into my "first" tank. My biggest limiting factor was cost (I'm a poor starving college student) so my design has tended toward the improvising end. Also, I made a decision early on to move gradually into dart frogs-mostly for the cost-and to see if my viv will work for a cheaper species first (bombina orientalis- fire bellied toads- they're like $5.99 at most pet stores). Once I get everything working well with them, I'll take the plunge and get some darts (thinking leucomelas). Anyways, here's basically how my design works:

I have a false bottom- but it's not the normal egg crate type. I used galvanized metal lath (the kind they use in masonry) to sculpt a landscape- there's little hills and a pond at each of the front corners. I covered this with some weed-b-gone (that black fabric stuff you use in the garden) -I actually sewed it down with fishing line- and I put window screen in places where I thought it would need better drainage.

After a long time trying to figure out what to do for my background, I went with the Great Stuff-Silicone-Coco thing (you can find a description of this at blackjungle.com).

My water feature is a little stream that runs from the tallest "hill" down to one of the ponds. I'm using a cheapo pump-the Rio 400- that I got for $15.99. I made a path for it with the Great Stuff so it won't wash my substrate out (I'm using a mixture of Coco bedding, potting soil (no perlite), and pea gravel).

For plants, I"ve got lots of mosses- some bromeliads, some wandering Jew, liverwort, ferns, and I'm going to experiment with Baby's Tears (Irish Moss I think it's called)

Anyways, good luck to you Wildtymes, and happy frogging.

~djohnston

Wish I had some pictures (no digi-cam) but thats a basic description.
 
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