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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello I am just wondering how does one know the difference from the "Panama Farm Raised" pumilio and the "old line" pumilio? Is it a visual thing of is it something only known from the breeder telling you the line? Also which is the better frog to buy? I hear they are different enough that they shouldnt be interbred, how can the same frog be so different? I guess I really just need someone who knows a thing or two about the pumilio family to help me in my decision making.

Thanks
 

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That was harsh dude...I didnt even know what PFR stood for...Can I not get pumilio now?

Giving proper care to a frog has little or nothing to do with the specific line or knowing the history of every shipment imported to the country fyi.

I wouldnt mind knowing either, so posting a helpful link is a lot more helpful then bashing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
That was harsh dude...I didnt even know what PFR stood for...Can I not get pumilio now?

Giving proper care to a frog has little or nothing to do with the specific line or knowing the history of every shipment imported to the country fyi.

I wouldnt mind knowing either, so posting a helpful link is a lot more helpful then bashing.
Thanks GRIMM, I agree. I understand that Pumilio is a bit of a hard frog but is it truly that much different than other PDF's? I know the breeding will be much harder. And I doubt that a pumilio will shrivel up and die because I dont know if its PFR of Old Line.

Let me be blunt. if you don't know the answer to your questions you should not be considering pumilio. Use the search function and read read read .
wow!! man, seriously some of you dart frog dudes are total snobs. I have read most of the links in the Forum>Species>Oophaga and have looked at every page of everyone for anything about the "old line" or "Farm raised" frogs and have found nothing! I also did a general search and an advanced search for both terms and am only taken to the care sheet, which I have read. So don't tell me to read! Perhaps I don't know how to use the search function to its entirety or missed something on the forum but like GRIMM said better to post a link rather than berate someone looking for help.

And how is a new member of the hobby supposed to learn without asking a few questions or feel comfortable coming back let alone asking further questions with pricks like you out there.

Also I understand that these are hard species but bought a pumilio from a handicapped friend of mine who had the thing in a tank where the ENIRE bottom of the tank was full of water with a few Lucky bamboo in there and who fed it nothing but the melanogaster flies. Sorry for taking in a frog and then trying to learn how to take better care of it.

Whatevs, thanks for being "blunt" oh and for being sooo helpful.
 

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for the most part older pumilio were coming from costa rica and nicaragua. they were either "blue jeans", "black jeans", or bri bri. the important thing about knowing the difference is not mixing the two. you are very unlikely to encounter this problem IMO since nearly any pumilio you can get cheaply and easily will be of the panamanian farm raised variety. now it gets interesting since there are frogs like the newer "BJ" imports which should not be mixed with old bloodlines since, although they both are (most likely) CR 'blue jeans", we have no clue whatsoever that they are from the same area and there is a decent bit of speculation which suggests that rather than one continuous BJ population there are multiple different ones (however slightly to our eye). therefore they should be kept separate. and thats just a tiny tip of the pumilio iceberg. locale/ ID confusion is a common problem of the species.

what the caresheets dont say, and what i think both members were trying to illustrate to you is that pumilio ARE different from other dart frogs. they are pretty much the only obligate egg feeder most hobbyists can even get, much less afford. they are slightly more difficult than other frogs, and, rightly, arent suggested for beginners but it can be done. i ALWAYS suggest this be attempted with the supervision of another frogger (at least close by and able to be reached by phone) with pum experience. pretty easy for most of the members here who live in or near big cities. but thats not all of the story. most of the pumilio in the us come from wild caught stock (directly). unlike darts such as azureus or terribilis, which breed readily in captivity and are well represented in captive populations, a stable population of pumilio arent. there are some morphs which are more readily available since the offspring produced are more hardy, or the fresh caught frogs produce an initial boom of offspring, but when the dust settles the vast majority of each morph will be lost, leaving a hand full of frogs to supply the masses. there is a finite # of each morph imported and its our job to do the very best with the animals that were given.

in the end its up to you, its your money and you'll do what you want with it, but make sure, if you choose to take on something like pumilio, to keep researching and asking questions.
james
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
James, your a God send!!

That is exactly what I needed to hear as well as answered many of my questions. I understand that they are a difficult frog to raise and only hope I can provide a better home than what was being offered before. It should be noted that I do have 3 close local friends whom are within a 10 minute drive who are very experienced.

It also seems that if I do truly want to eventually try breeding pumilios it would be best to buy a breeding pair from a reputable dealer. I will post a thread with pictures of my new Pumilio and see if the expertise found here may be able to assist me in figuring out what kind of morph I have.

Seriously thanks again for the sober, factual and essentially unemotional and non-condesending way of helping me in this hobby.
 
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