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Re: CODE OF ETHICS

I was wondering how long it would take for this thread to take a turn for the worst. I was actually enjoying everyones "ideas" and "opinions". I think that before buying a dart frog, one should realize that it also needs veterinary care/fecals/quarintene. I think that just like people who buy the cute dog or cat and spend $25 or $1000 don't realize the cost of properly taking care of them, individuals who buy dart frogs don't realize the costs involved, and this includes not only the afor mentioned things but also the cost of set up and then ff culturing materials etc. I would like to see this thread go back to listing some good guidelines to follow that can enhance our enjoyment of the hobby.
 

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Re: CODE OF ETHICS

If enough people join the Amphibian Steward Network and register their animals, we will be able to drop this one from the code because there will be an easy way to maintain "pure" lines without relying on peer pressure.
I am purchasing some frogs at the end of this month and I would like to register them. I would also like to see if their line is registered. I know they are born of WC animals. I tried to make sense of this sample report, and do not understand much about the report. http://www.treewalkers.org/treeftp/GlobalConservation/ASN/public/Misc/specimen.pdf
 

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Re: CODE OF ETHICS

I want to apologize to everyone if my comments came off as harsh. I was merely trying to add to the discussion and ended up doing so in a rather counterproductive way. A little more in-depth reading might have prevented some of the drama. But I still stand by my statement that we need to be VERY cautious to keep this "Code" in a positive tone (I know, ironic much?). But "guidelines" might be a better tack to take. (All of a sudden I'm picturing Johnny Dep saying "The Code" is mor elike guidelines).

And I think it would be worthwhile to spell out what the audience is here.

But to simplify the discussion a bit, I'd say one of the first should be "Read, read, and then read."

A close second would be to join TWI and to follow that great mantra "Instead of keeping more species, do more with the species you keep." MANY of the ideas that have been brought up here have the distinct ring of the ASN Handbook!

Thanks!
Rich Terrell
Insular Exotics
 

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Pearls of Wisdom

It started out innocent enough, didnt it? :eek:


Consideration #101: [notice I decided not to call my opinion a Code, for fear Rich would send me to Hell ;) ]

"I will not spend my last dollar of disposable income on frogs. I will not pay a breeder 'tuesday for a hamburger today', instead I will act responsibly and not on impulse".

of course this is more of Fatherly advice, ie: "Save for a rainy day", as I cringe when I get requests to hold animals and 'ship after payday', or when 'I sell my bike' or whatever. The last thing someone should do is trade a frog purchase for a good meal :), or a heating bill, or more CC debt.

Some of the other opinions in this thread are quite good.

S
 

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Discussion Starter #46
Re: CODE OF ETHICS

Good advice Shawn. Perhaps it should not be called a code of ethics, but principles to follow.
 

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I will make every effort to live in peace with my fellow froggers and to help them with their needs.

I will also abstain from potentially harmful man-made chemicals whenever possible in dealing with my dart frogs, recognizing that this can affect their health. This includes man-altered components within, but is not limited to, plant fertilizers, foodstuffs, plastics and preservatives such as parabens.
 

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Re: CODE OF ETHICS

No, what we need is an estimate on how many frogs of each morph are needed in the US per year. We need people to set #`s and not just collect out every egg that is laid. As long as people show no control over the # of frogs they produce each year this will always happen. Their prolificity is their downfall. Only 1-10 pairs of each morph can produce more than what is needed in this country and lines will always fall out as long as people breed as many frogs as their pairs will produce. This is the fuel that drives bottlenecking. If everyone sees a certain morph always available by a breeder they fall out of favor because people think that morph is "well established".

We also need there to be LIMITED imports so that they don`t just collect them till the market falls out and they fall out of favor. We just say it w/ pumilio. I got all my pairs breeding and can`t get rid of the offspring, even on rarer pumilio because they imported them till they dropped just as they did blue jeans years ago.

So what you're saying is we need to import more frogs because people could not keep the ones we got alive and only a few people got them to breed? I am not saying that at this point in time we have to stop getting WC but we really need to decide at what point enough is enough. How many blue jeans where imported into this country back in the day?
Probably enough that we could have possibly started something with them. But like in most case's not enough was done then to get things going and it was done at the frogs expense. Thier is a fin line from what we need and was is greed.
Brian
 

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4. I will get new vitamins every six months. I will get new vitamins every six months. I will get new vitamins every six months. I will get new vitamins every six months. I will get new vitamins every six months. I will get new vitamins every six months. I will get new vitamins every six months!

5. I will research every animal obtained BEFORE it is brought home. I will learn how to culture FFs and springtails BEFORE the animal is purchased. I will plan ahead if cultures fail, and have someone I can depend on for FFs in an emergency.
Something about getting new vitamins, I just can't remember when!!
 

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Re: CODE OF ETHICS

Really? We would NEVER need more? IMO, that is a dramatic oversimplification of the current reality in this hobby. I think we have a pretty good idea where all of the blue jeans that are left in the US came from. Do we have a big enough "founding population" to ensure a reasonable approximation of the genetic diversity present in the wild population? I would leave it to Tor, Brent, Robb, Adam or whoever else has them. But I'd bet that they would say "no." What happened to all of those Man Creek pumilio offspring? They fell ou tof favor and there aren't that many left because "bigger and better" morphs came in and took the effort away form them. And there are likely other cases where we know lineage, but the frogs became unpopular, or were difficult to breed, and their population was bottle-necked.

In an ideal world, this would not happen and we would know lineage on all of the frogs. And that is part of TWI's mission. But we are not anywhere near there. And there are other species of frogs that should be represented, but are not yet for legal reasons or because hobbyists prefer colorful to brown frogs (I know, Corey is an exception). So I think it is premature to "outlaw" WC frogs. But we should definitely encourage CB.

Captive breeding now, for some species, is in its infancy. As we refine techniques for different species, we learn more about those species and others that have similar behavior, ecology, etc. So practice makes perfect for when we have enough of a certain species/morph to consitute a representative genetic sample, even if we know it will require future importations to accomplish that.

Rich Terrell
Insular Exotics
Hi Rich,

Isn't it possible that a number of frog species will never be able to be breed in sufficient numbers to meet the hobby demand and, therefore, cheaper wild caught animals will always be in demand? Hasn't this been the case with D. lehmani and Antelopus spp. (and currently with "farm-raised" D. pumilio)?

I think if I want to state as my personal ethic that I will NOT buy any wild collected frogs and not contribute to their depletion in the wild, this position should be applauded, not explained away.

It's a soap-box, but it's my soap-box!! Take care, Richard in Staten island.
 

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Code # 614: I promise to respect the froggers who are ahead of me in the hobby and to offer a helping hand to those just behind me.
 

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I was about to start an Ethics thread, but I found this one instead. Some decent stuff in here.
 

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When I have 1000's of dollars in frogs and geckos including some rarer species... I will buy a generator asap...even if I don't think I'll need it. @#$% YOU ICE STORM...and the @#$%in horse you rode in on!!!

Peace.
Dave
 

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Hmm....

Curious to why i didnt see a single code about chytrid?

Seems like something that is worth preventing and maintaining the safety of your collection.

-Wayne
 

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A newbs considerations,

1. Remember your roots as a PDF owner. Always remember why you got into the hobby in the first place.

2. Always thoughtfully consider advice or an opinion given to you instead of writing it off due to pride or prejudice. Your animals deserve better.

3. Have an emergency medical plan in order for your PDFs.

4. No matter how frustrated you get while constructing new vivariums or tending to problems with your frogs... HAVE FUN! (This one is good for the people with short fuses and a tinge of impatience such as myself.) ;)


Hope nothing I said was to redundant.
-FoxHound
 
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