[Dane]

If this should be in the Disease treatment forum, feel free to move it. I purchased some Panacure and Metronidazole from Dr. Frye for my Bicolors, which he had determined to be infested with worms and protozoa, and I had a couple of questions regarding the application of these drugs. I have read the instructions affixed to the packages, but I was wondering if one should be used before the other, i.e. the Metro given an hour or so before the Panacure to stimulate appetite, and possibly offset the foreign taste of the powder? Also he had mentioned that the cages should be cleaned after the drugs were given, but I had forgotted at what intervals he reccomended. Also, shold the cages be completely sterilized during cleaning? My typical cleaning procedure involves removal of the used paper towel substrate and cage furniture (pothos cuttings/cork bark) a quick rubdown of the container with a vinegar/water solution, a rinse of all items with very hot tap water, then new paper towel and replacement of the furniture. Is this sufficient? I was also wondering if it would be wise to treat my whole collection (2 jeuv. Vents, 4 adult Auratus, 2 sub adult Bicolors, 3 very young Vittatus) at once to avoid later cross contamination. Thanks for reading.

 

[Dancing frogs]

Well, I've never had a frog get sick, and never got around to getting fecals done as a preventive measure, but I would try and get the whole collection tested before treating them all for something they may or may not have. I would assume though, just to be safe that the whole collection is affected, and if you're just treating the one group, quarantine them, and do not use the same sprayer(for misting) or feeding cup or devices, and take the time to wash you're hands when you go from feeding one group to the quarantined group. If you have the time and money, I'd definatly get the whole group tested and treated.
Just my $0.02

 

[Guest]

quarrantine

When quarrantine is to be done it is a good idea to keep things simple. Basically continue with the paper towel as substrate use plastic plants with no apparent pointy edges, some prefer a cutting of pothos added as well. Depending on the infection you have which in your case I assume a bacterial and worm issue treat as directed. I have 2 tanks I use with additional plants and hiding places. It's convient to have a fresh tank already to go and all is needed is to place the frogs into it as it reduces stress. Your cleaning regimine can be nothing more than simply soaking the extra enclosure and furniture with a 5% bleach and water solution for a time of fifteen minutes as this time is sufficient to kill any organisims present. The paper towel changing interval could be every other day or so, I have the new tank already to go at each one, one that is thoroughly rinsed with no bleach solution present ( plants are thoroughly rinsed also.) As far as the bad taste of the powder ,Panacur is administered only once a week so it should'nt pose too big an issue for the frog's taste buds but it is common sense not to charge the frogs heavily at once with meds so keep it simple as you are and things should work out fine, Dr.Frye is a great person to deal with and does care about what he does I am shure you could simply e-mail him with this same question and he would answer it fer you. Best wishes!

 

[Dane]

Doc Frye was prompt in returning my emails, and between your replies and his, it about covers everything. Just wondering how much rinsing needs to be done after using the bleach sol'n to remove all traces of it? Can it be used on cork and plants as well? I might switch to totally artificial/disposable hide spots to help with cleaning.

 

[Dancing frogs]

Just thought I'd add what I think about the whole "sterile" set-up with paper towels, plastic plants,etc.
I'm probably gonna ruffle somebodies feathers here, whats that I see out the window? Torches and pitchforks? :lol:
Anyways I realize what one tries to accomplish with such a set-up. However, you must realize that in creating as sterile a set-up as can be accomplished (and just how sterile can you keep it, when you have to provide live food?) you are potentially creating a breeding ground for the bacteria, viruses, and other types of parasites you are trying to get rid of in the first place. Now I realize that most parasites cannot survive for long outside of a host, but think about it. In nature, or even a balanced recreation of it, there are a wide variety of micro-organisms, some "good" and some "bad", alot of them compete, or even prey on one another. What is the only thing in a sterile quarantine that cannot be sterilized? The frog (animal). So you put your infected frog into this Quasi-sterile environment, know what grows best in a semi-sterile environment? Whatever shows up first, since there is hardly any competition present!
I don't have a better idea for a "frog hospital" If I really had to treat a frog, I'd probably do the whole "sterile" quarantine too. I just feel that in doing so, one might do more harm than good.
Take care,

 

[Dane]

I do realize that there are two schools of thought on that subject. But with that in mind, would it ever really be possible to properly treat a frog for parasites in a typical terrarium environment? Probably not. I believe that parasites (coccidia for example) have the least chance of surviving to sporocysts and being reintroduced to the animal in an easily cleaned semi-sterile environment. If I thought otherwise, I would just stick the frogs in their viv as they are, but I have too much invested in even a 10 gal to let it become permanently infected. And don't worry about ruffling feathers, it's good to get different points of view.

 

[Ed]

rinsing

If you are want to be sure you have removed all of the bleach, soak the container in a water with a chlorine remover made for fish tanks for about 5-10 minutes and then rinse with water and dry. This will ensure that all of the chlorine has been removed.
I tend to have multiple containers when I quarantine animals so inbetween any treatments I just move them to the next cage and the old cage has time to dry and air out.
In situations like this, all cage furnishings that do not have a sealed smooth surface (which allows for disinfection) need to be discarded (cork, plants, branches, etc) unless they can be autoclaved (or run in a pressure cooker for 15-20 minutes) to kill the parasites otherwise you are risking reinfection of the animals post treatment, creating a never ending cycle.

Ed

 

[Guest]

It would be best not to soak any live plants in the solution at all. A great sterile and reuseable hide is a plastic salsa dish or dark plastic bowl with an entrance cut into the front. Simply gather a few of these along with a few seperate plastic plants and your good. What I like to do is when soaking is to throw all of it into the used enclosure after rinsing and soak it all at once. Then when ready rinse and dry then do a quick set up and your ready to go. I think it should be kept simple and easy with reuseable items to reduce stress on the owner as well as the frogs. Ed has the best instructions on proper rinsing so just follow those but to ensure success with this type of treatment be shure bleach is removed and keep hygenic. Rubber gloves are a good idea if you have multiple enclosures or just wash hands between travels. I hope this helps let us know how it went! Best wishes.