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Discussion Starter #43
I have asked Mark Pepper for some more information regarding visual distinctions between Orange and Orangehead as well as color variation within each locale and overlapping of the populations in the wild. Here is an excerpt of his answer:
The orange hail from near Chumanza (or Shumanza depending what map or road sign you refer too) and the orangehead from further south between Nuevo San Martin and Polvora. The north south distribution of this species seems to be a gentle transition from Bright yellow in the North, to bright red in the south. Further north from Chumanza near Camapanea and Juicungo you have the really nice yellow populations, and closer to Tocache at the southern extreme they are bright red, not orange, red. The stuff in between is varying shades of orange. You have about - if memeory serves me correctly because it has been a long time since i looked at a map of the region- only about 40 km in a straight line between the orange and orangehead sites where we collected founding stock from in 2005 and 2006. Though the populations are separated now, they probably, or at least the orange ones in question, were probably once part of a larger near continuous population only separated in the last few hundred years due to human interference.

Anyways, I have never seen a huge variation in either of these populations in the wild, nor from all I have bred where one comes out and looks like the other, but I sure won't say it is impossible. I have only seen a few dozen at most of the Chumanza frogs during the last decade in the wild, as they have always been hard to locate, so there could be more variation in that population than I have encountered.

Anyways its easy to imagine a mix up with the two forms, as a they are similar, and thanks to me, too confusingly named.
With that said, I think it is safe to say that there are clear differences between Orange and Orangehead and Ray's statement below is partially incorrect. Lineage is indeed very important.

You would not be able to tell [the difference], hence the importance of lineage.
I already started a fund for a 4:1 group. Unfortunately Ray, I am set on Orange head. Any chance you'll have some of those towards the second semester of this year? Some that would look similar to this? ;)



I asked Mark and he does not have any available at the moment.
Nope, I work with 'Orange' which is what the frog in the photograph is.
Unfortunately, it appears that Ray's frog in the picture is actually Orangehead pepperi, and not Orange as he believed (unless the picture's colors were doctored).

This may open a can of worms, but I believe it is important to bring it to everyone's attention.

Also, let me say that I do not think Ray or anyone who kept these frogs mixed them up on purpose/knowingly. I have not figured out where in the process between Understory and the US hobbyists the glitch happened. Any help is greatly appreciated.
 
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