[booga]

hi,

last week i was on chat and i brought up line breeding. I was wondering what peoples' thoughts are on it. Not hybridization but select breeding. So far I dont see anything wrong with it because i see it in even versions of imitators and vents. When i brought up the select breeding on chat I think i saw someone who wasn't happy about that idea. I dont want to open a can of worms and cause trouble but the more I think about it the more i think it should be addressed, if not for the community just for my own perspective.

jason

 

[Ryan]

Its already been discussed, select breeding is inbreeding, and is very much frowned apon.

Ryan

 

[booga]

maybe it should be defined what i mean by select breeding. some frogs have characteristic that just pop up such as intermedius with blue legs. so you take one source and another source with simular characteristics and you find others from here and there. This is nothing i am willing to trouble myself with because it would take several generations to have that trait come out true. i never heard of select breeding being inbreeding. but maybe i dont know what select breeding is? but would there be anything wrong with having blue legged intermeduis that bred true?

 

[booga]

ok i went through all 21 pages of the advanced discussion. i found and read some strings relating to this question. some address hybridization which i included just because it relates to genetics (not the acutal subject i am referring to). my pain is your gain. so if you have a question that is related i went to the trouble for you. personally i have been an aquarist since i was 11 years old and have kept leopard geckos almost as long as i have frogs (aournd 4 years now), so the subject fascinates me. before I found this forum the extent of getting knowlege about anything beyond keeping them has been minimal. you kind find alot of info on fish and leopard geckos. theres not many sites with this much knowlege about pdf poured into which is why im glad i finally found this site after so long.

http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=141


http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4299


http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4097


http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4501


http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5759


http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5746

some of these are very interesting.

jason

 

[rmelancon]

Its already been discussed, select breeding is inbreeding, and is very much frowned apon.

Ryan

I'll have to disagree here. I don't frown upon select/inbreeding because of several reasons. 1) With many animals in the hobby there just isn't any way around breeding siblings. 2) WC founding stock are usually collected from small areas so there's no guarantee that those aren't somewhat closely related to begin with. 3) Inbreeding is part of the natural history of these animals and the genetic makeup is built to handle it.

If you have access to multiple bloodlines (of the same morph) by all means mix up the gene pool but I see nothing wrong with trying to keep the traits you like displayed in the animals you produce.

I've said this before but lets not forget that every azureus in this country prior to the 98? imports were descended from a very small group of animals.

 

[Arklier]

I agree. In some darts, line breeding is nearly impossible to avoid, unless you don't want to breed at all. Regina tincs and standard lamasi, for instance.

 

[DaFrogMan]

I agree with Rob here. I would be willing to bet that there has been a lot of "inbreeding" in the dart trade in the past too - especially in the less common morphs. Although genetic diversity is important, I don't think that a generation or two of related breeding is going to hurt the line very much, if at all.

I'm not sure that Jason wants to inbreed either, it sounds like he is just trying to bring out a desired trait a little bit more by carefully selecting his breeding pairs.

 

[booga]

That is what I am talking about. I remember one time I inquired about the blue legged intermedius with someone. I asked if they bred true and they said no and I was frustrated because I couldn't see the point of buying them if the babies might not have that trait, that’s the version I prefer. Of course since that my knowledge has grown. I have other prefrences which at least one of them breeds true already as far as I know, the green imitator. Another preference (which is the one I brought up in the chat) is the sky-blue azuereus which I don’t think breeds true yet. I know eventually that there will be albinos that breed true and I am almost certain some people would have less quarks about that than knowing that there are a certain type of intermedius, but in my mind it’s basically the same thing.

jason

 

[Guest]

well i thing select breeding has its pionts but also loses some. I think select breeding is doing nature never intended to do with this animals, i know that alot of the frogs we have would never make it past tad or egg in nature, but there is no need for us to make some kind of "superfrog" i like to keep these lil' guys natural, they aren't race horses or any thing like that so i want to keep they genes how nature would intend them to be. just my $0.02.

 

[Ryan]

Line breeding and select breeding is what i was reffering to. Line breeding is breeding the mother(with specific traits) with offspring(with the same desired traits) to get those traits. Thats what i was reffering to.

Ryan