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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I got my frogs (D. auratus "El cope")
three months ago and have been a happy keeper ever since. In the beginning they were very active but after a few days they mostly hid in the back of the enclosure where they dug a little hide and occasionally I would see one of them hopping around or taking a bath in the water bowl.
The breeder I got them from recommended to put a small water bowl into the enclosure (the one seen in the picture, it was maybe half full with water) to make sure they can regulate moisture if humidity dropw too low. This is an advice I have also seen in the forum. I knew that they are not good swimmers and that's why I was careful to have a bowl where they could easily reach the boarder when standing on their legs. It had like a thumb of water in it and I never had the feeling that it was hard for the frogs to jump out.
Today when I came home from work I noticed one frog floating in the bowl not moving. I immediately took him out but it was already too late. He seemed completely healthy not malnourished, not hurt but he still drowned. I am absolutely devastated about it. I thought I knew what I was doing and I am sure that his head should have been out of the water if he sat on his hindlegs. Even dead the water barely even covered him.
I checked my other frogs and they also all seem healthy. Very reactive, well fed and moving a lot.
The colouration of the drowned frog seems a bit muted in comparison but that might just be because he is dead.
For the moment I pulled out the water bowl and I guess I Have to think about a solution that's even more frog proof or leave it out all together.
I don't really know why I post this story here, if I want advice or inform others that even if you think the water is not too deep it still might be. Maybe I just want to get this off of my chest. For the moment I pulled out the water bowl and am unsure if I will put a smaller bowl in or get rid of it completly.
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I am very sorry for your loss.

My recommendation is to not put the water dish back in. Frogs don't need a water dish if the tank is set up correctly. None of my non-ranitomeya tanks have a water dish, or open water source in them at all (my Ranitomeya tanks only have them to facilitate tadpole disposition)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I am very sorry for your loss.

My recommendation is to not put the water dish back in. Frogs don't need a water dish if the tank is set up correctly. None of my non-ranitomeya tanks have a water dish, or open water source in them at all (my Ranitomeya tanks only have them to facilitate tadpole disposition)
Thank you for your condolences.
I just wonder if there was an underlaying issues with the frog or if it really was just a freak accident. I never really had the feeling that they had problems getting out of the dish. I guess in the future I will leave out the bowl and maybe up the misting time a bit to make sure that they still have enough water to absorb through their skin.
 

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I'm glad you joined the dendroboard community, coming over from reddit. Hopefully it was just a freak accident... sorry for your loss once again.
 

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Sorry for your loss. It's tough to lose a frog. I just found out I had one escape sometime in the past week. I found her on the floor and I was heartbroken.

Water dishes/features/ponds are more often than not detrimental to dart frogs. Ranitomeya and oophaga need water sites to deposit but we're talking brom axles and film canisters. Anything deep enough for them to be submerged in is dangerous.

Again, sorry for you loss. Glad to hear you'll be removing the water dish. I don't know how much you're misting, but I only mist 3x a day for 30 seconds each. And honestly that's way more than they need. I could mist once at midday and have the tank humid enough for them. You may not need to increase your mistings at all. Some photos of your tank and your misting schedule might help us give you more advice with this.
 

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I'm really sorry that you lost your frog. He looked like a very attractive auratus. In my opinion, that frog looks bloated, and I would suspect that there were other issues ongoing before the frog died in the water. If you can afford it, and it's still within the first 24 hours, a necropsy would be very useful. You can contact your vet for more information, and until you can get the frog to them, keep it in the refrigerator- not the freezer.
 

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I'd say it is doubtful that the frog drowned in that small amount of water. I would think likely it is something else going on and that's where it ended up.

That said, the water dish is not necessary in a proper setup. If you still want to provide one, try a small clay saucer instead of a dish like that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Sorry for your loss. It's tough to lose a frog. I just found out I had one escape sometime in the past week. I found her on the floor and I was heartbroken.

Water dishes/features/ponds are more often than not detrimental to dart frogs. Ranitomeya and oophaga need water sites to deposit but we're talking brom axles and film canisters. Anything deep enough for them to be submerged in is dangerous.

Again, sorry for you loss. Glad to hear you'll be removing the water dish. I don't know how much you're misting, but I only mist 3x a day for 30 seconds each. And honestly that's way more than they need. I could mist once at midday and have the tank humid enough for them. You may not need to increase your mistings at all. Some photos of your tank and your misting schedule might help us give you more advice with this.
Thank you and also sorry for your loss. I can understand how you feel. I really didn't have them for such a long time but seeing him float there made my guts twist.

After all the replies I've got here I really think I will try it without a water bowl for the time being. Currently I am misting every 8 hours for 20 seconds at atime. The humidity ususally stays above 70%. The tank is a 18x18x24 ExoTerra with a glass lid. I also have 2 fans to assist with ventilation and cooling in the summer but have only one of them running atm. The first picture is shortly after setting the tank up (August), but the lights are already turned off for the day and I don't have another picture of the complete tank at the ready. The second picture is from October.
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I'm really sorry that you lost your frog. He looked like a very attractive auratus. In my opinion, that frog looks bloated, and I would suspect that there were other issues ongoing before the frog died in the water. If you can afford it, and it's still within the first 24 hours, a necropsy would be very useful. You can contact your vet for more information, and until you can get the frog to them, keep it in the refrigerator- not the freezer.
Thank you. He really was a pretty frog. He was on rounder side when I got him (in comparison to the other three). There was also something grey in his mouth when I pulled him out of the water, but I assumed that its probably the tongue. I put him in the fridge and will look if there is a exotic vet available in my area.
After finding him checked up on my other frogs and they looked all very healthy - at least to me. Very reactive, and moving to keep me in their field of view when turning the container to check them from all sides. But I guess if there was something like a bacteria infection it can't hurt to have the dead frog checked. Is impection a common issue in dart frogs?
 

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I have read that dart frogs are not good swimmers. Has anyone seen a dart frog swim? They seem like pretty good swimmers to me. Not as good as a leopard frog but, still. It was pretty standard keep water areas in our frog tanks a long time ago.

I think most of the time dart frogs get drowned by competing frogs while wrestling, get stuck in poorly designed water areas that do not have easy ways out, or have other issues that cause them to drown. A healthy frog most likely will not just drowned in a water dish.
 

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lot of pics of bloated frogs on the interwebz lately. That dead frog looks like it may have been....
 

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I got my frogs (D. auratus "El cope")
three months ago and have been a happy keeper ever since. In the beginning they were very active but after a few days they mostly hid in the back of the enclosure where they dug a little hide and occasionally I would see one of them hopping around or taking a bath in the water bowl.
The breeder I got them from recommended to put a small water bowl into the enclosure (the one seen in the picture, it was maybe half full with water) to make sure they can regulate moisture if humidity dropw too low. This is an advice I have also seen in the forum. I knew that they are not good swimmers and that's why I was careful to have a bowl where they could easily reach the boarder when standing on their legs. It had like a thumb of water in it and I never had the feeling that it was hard for the frogs to jump out.
Today when I came home from work I noticed one frog floating in the bowl not moving. I immediately took him out but it was already too late. He seemed completely healthy not malnourished, not hurt but he still drowned. I am absolutely devastated about it. I thought I knew what I was doing and I am sure that his head should have been out of the water if he sat on his hindlegs. Even dead the water barely even covered him.
I checked my other frogs and they also all seem healthy. Very reactive, well fed and moving a lot.
The colouration of the drowned frog seems a bit muted in comparison but that might just be because he is dead.
For the moment I pulled out the water bowl and I guess I Have to think about a solution that's even more frog proof or leave it out all together.
I don't really know why I post this story here, if I want advice or inform others that even if you think the water is not too deep it still might be. Maybe I just want to get this off of my chest. For the moment I pulled out the water bowl and am unsure if I will put a smaller bowl in or get rid of it completly.
View attachment 303497 View attachment 303498
I am sorry for your loss Im sure you were doing everyting right. To solve the problem you should replace the water bowl with a small misting system I know there very expensive but Its worth it.
 

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lot of pics of bloated frogs on the interwebz lately. That dead frog looks like it may have been....
I was thinking the same.

Sorry for your loss @The op, I think your frog dying points in the direction of underlaying issues which is a red flag for your other frogs aswell.
 

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Has anyone seen a dart frog swim?
Before I had frog losses related to a water feature that I subsequently removed, I learned that R. sirensis swim pretty well.

Until they get past the substrate barrier and into the Matala mat, that is, at which point they get stuck and die. That's a big issue with water features and other such unnecessary environmental complications: even if frogs can swim, captive conditions force boneheaded behaviors that need to be prevented by not offering the opportunities for those behaviors.

maybe up the misting time a bit to make sure that they still have enough water to absorb through their skin.
Yes, if they were dug in and hiding they may have been lacking moisture in the viv. Given your entirely adequate misting schedule, I'd suspect that the fan-forced ventilation may be causing a problem. Exos are nice in that passive ventilation works well if a small (2" or so minimum, though I run 50% screen much of the year) vent is left in the back -- getting some differently-sized pieces of plexiglass to lay on top of the screen makes it easy to adjust ventilation in small increments as needed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I am sorry for your loss Im sure you were doing everyting right. To solve the problem you should replace the water bowl with a small misting system I know there very expensive but Its worth it.
I have a misting system running since I got the frogs. I spray 3 times daily for 20 seconds.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
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Before I had frog losses related to a water feature that I subsequently removed, I learned that R. sirensis swim pretty well.

Until they get past the substrate barrier and into the Matala mat, that is, at which point they get stuck and die. That's a big issue with water features and other such unnecessary environmental complications: even if frogs can swim, captive conditions force boneheaded behaviors that need to be prevented by not offering the opportunities for those behaviors.


Yes, if they were dug in and hiding they may have been lacking moisture in the viv. Given your entirely adequate misting schedule, I'd suspect that the fan-forced ventilation may be causing a problem. Exos are nice in that passive ventilation works well if a small (2" or so minimum, though I run 50% screen much of the year) vent is left in the back -- getting some differently-sized pieces of plexiglass to lay on top of the screen makes it easy to adjust ventilation in small increments as needed.
I have the top covered with 2 glass plates. The one under the lamp doesn't have a large brim, the one in the back has a 1 cm edge.
I have put in the fans mostly for summer when the temperature in the tank reached upwards of 27°C easily.
With hiding I meant that they are mostly sitting in a tunnel between the backdrop and the substrate and not in the coconut huts I provided.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
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I was thinking the same.

Sorry for your loss @The op, I think your frog dying points in the direction of underlaying issues which is a red flag for your other frogs aswell.
Since some people pointed towards bloating in the dead frog I will attach pics of the other frogs. Do they in your opinion look healthy?
 

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View attachment 303506
View attachment 303505
View attachment 303504

Since some people pointed towards bloating in the dead frog I will attach pics of the other frogs. Do they in your opinion look healthy?
The photo's don't show enough detail for my eye, maybe @Johanovich is of better help here.

I can say basing health only on sight by photo's is not a good idea. Also pullong the frog outside their tank might put them into even more stress if there is something wrong with their setup.
So you might want to send a fecies sample to a vet to make sure they are realy 'healthy'.

Can you post a photo of the setup you keep the frogs in?
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
The photo's don't show enough detail for my eye, maybe @Johanovich is of better help here.

I can say basing health only on sight by photo's is not a good idea. Also pullong the frog outside their tank might put them into even more stress if there is something wrong with their setup.
So you might want to send a fecies sample to a vet to make sure they are realy 'healthy'.

Can you post a photo of the setup you keep the frogs in?
I usually never pull them out of their tank. Just did it after finding the dead frog to monitor their health and put them back in afterwards. Sadly I don't have better pictures then the ones provided.
I will sent the dead frog to an institute for a necropsy and wait for the results. If it had parasites I guess the necropsy would find them.
There is a picture of my setup further upwards in the thread.
 

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I usually never pull them out of their tank. Just did it after finding the dead frog to monitor their health and put them back in afterwards. Sadly I don't have better pictures then the ones provided.
I will sent the dead frog to an institute for a necropsy and wait for the results. If it had parasites I guess the necropsy would find them.
There is a picture of my setup further upwards in the thread.
Great idea.
But I still recommend to also send a fresh fecies sample to a vet.

Missed that, py phone did not load the photo's but my pc did 👍
 
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