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Next Breeding Project

7K views 38 replies 19 participants last post by  tclipse 
#1 ·
Got the Redheads going well so I needed a new challenge so here it is!

This is the male - unfortunately the flash has washed out the colour somewhat.


Oophaga sylvatica 'Whitefoot'

I need to get a decent shot of the female who appears to be gravid at the moment. I've had them several months, they were a young CB 'suspected' pair which lucily turned out to be correct. The female has laid but nothing came from the clutch. I have a deep layer of magnolia and other tropical leaves in their viv and this is where the eggs where deposited. I have just finished refurbishing their viv adding a few more suitable broms.
This is def one species that in my opinion benefit from 'field plankton'. Hopefully this feeder diversity will help towards succesful breeding soon.
As soon as I get a decent photo of the female I'll update the thread.

Regards
Graham
 
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#5 ·
Thanks guys! To be honest the photos just don't do them justice - they are such stunning frogs in real life.

here's a photo of their viv - sorry about the reflection - I'll get some better shots when I have a minute - you can see the deep leaf litter at the back. The viv is a 50cm cube.


Here's another shot of the male that shows his colour better.


and finally a shot of the female 'peeping' out from her jungle pod. She has a lot less black marbling than the male.


Enjoy!
Regards
Graham
 
#13 ·
The rock work looks very natural because it is very natural - why compete with mother nature when she does it so well! I collected the stones from the stream that runs by our cottage and placed them in a similar pattern in the viv as I found them.

The background on this viv is 2 inch polystyrene sheet 'landscaped' by picking out areas to give an overall variation in depth and then painted black (using non toxic acrylic paint). It works just the same as foam but much easier to work as you can do all the work outside of the viv and just fix it on with silicone when it's finished. Then its really easy to push brom stolons and other decor into it.

Regards
Graham
 
#14 ·
Utterly beautiful Graham,ha and the viv too,nice to see them at last. when we last talked you spoke of making adjustments for them could you ellucidate for me?Are these related to Marc's? As i have been fortunate enough to stand in wonderment watching those. although they seem a touch darker red is that the camera playing tricks? One day when i have done enough graft and homework one day,we'll do right by these much to learn much to do but one day!!!
belucky mate
Stu
 
#16 ·
Hi Stu,
no these are unrelated to Marc's - we already have that sorted once we have breeding underway and your right about the colour - mine are blood red too but the camera never gets their colour right.
Viv wise it was tweaking leaf litter areas, hides and adding more broms.

Wild food is collected using standard invert sampling methods
Trees and shrubs - beating tray.
Grassland - sweep net.
Standing and fallen deadwood - pooter.


I also sometimes collect any suitable coleoptera if I've been moth trapping overnight.

Regards
Graham
 
#21 ·
Thanks Graham,do you have a pic of the viv before tweaking?
Thats great news that they are different lines,this bodes really well for the future that these are in both your capable hands,and are unrelated!!
Thanks for the tips on grub do you utilise a seive for selecting suitable sizes and what would its dimensions be? Sorry to be slightly off the whitefoots but its my humble opinion that this wild grub is so so important,i want to be able to utiise this resource to very best advantage. Not yet tried the beating tray,but will very soon!
regards
Stu
Thanks for the help
 
#19 ·
i expect they would command prices at or above $1500ea USD (due to their rarity in the US and their distribution in their native range) so you'd need a LOT of anthonyi ;)

this is without question my absolute favorite amphibian. its incredibly stunning, and the specimens with higher amounts of white are even more spectacular.

keep up the good work and PLEASE get these breeding!

james
 
#24 ·
there are frogs in the US from old stock imported (apparently directly from colombia) when export was allowed (15-20 years ago), so proving that an individual is of illegal origin would be difficult.

there are at least 2 pairs that ive heard of in the US, and i will disclose no more than that so no PMs.

james
 
#25 ·
I'm aware of the imports, before and under CITES.
However, they are treated as illegal in Europe.
I'll bet he can't just put offspring for sale around here on a fair without being taken from him.

With all the smuggling going on, they won't just accept any story you tell them.
All of the lehmani, histrionica etc. are concidered illegal here.
Mostly because of their status and high smuggling rates.

I'm wondering why they are only offered on the black market otherwise,
prizes are insane, so who doesn't wan't to sell them with papers?
They would be even higher prized with the right paperwork, especially for the people to get all of their illegal specimens legal.
Look at the benedicta sold here for around $500 with papers, while smuggled animals where only a fifth of that prize.
 
#27 ·
However, they are treated as illegal in Europe.

With all the smuggling going on, they won't just accept any story you tell them.
All of the lehmani, histrionica etc. are concidered illegal here.
Mostly because of their status and high smuggling rates.QUOTE]

I will not be drawn into an argument over this but need to correct you on a number of points.................


The frog you refer to was actually a juvenille when I aquired it as part of a pair. A number of UK froggers were lucky enough to obtain legal JUVENILE CAPTIVE BRED frogs with papers.
This species and a number of others may be ILLEGAL in Holland but they are not illegal in the UK.
Contrary to belief providing their environmental conditions are correct this species like histrionica is quite easy to breed.

In no way would I condone the smuggling of frogs as I am and have been for many years heavily involved in several areas of amphibian conservation here in the UK and in Central and South America. As a DEFRA and Natural England licensed amphibian worker I would not be involved or associated with any frogs which were illegal here in the UK. I have never hid the fact that I have and breed histrionica and sylvatica (with LEGAL papers again contrary to your OPINION). Two of my CB sub adult male histrionica will soon be heading to France to diversify the bloodlines of a breeding group out there.
If I was in Holland I agree these frogs would be illegal and as such I would not keep them but here in the UK they are legal and hopefully breeding them and releasing them to other keepers will only add to their conservation.
I applaud the conservation efforts undertaken by your organisation and 100% support the arrest and prosecution of illegal smuggling of any animal species but you need to check the legality of frogs in other countries before making statements like the ones above.

Perhaps you would comment on some other frogs that have a 'shadow' over their origins and are possibly 'illegal' in Holland but commonly kept and bred here in the UK -

Excidobates mysteriosus
Dendrobates tinctorius - Pic Matecho and Mont la Fumee morphs
Oophaga vincentei
Ranitomeya benedicta
Ranitomeya fantastica
Ranitomeya flavovittata
Ranitomeya vanzolinii

All the above species are, according to Dendrobates.org illegal.
Dendrobates.org - Smuggling

Yet many if not all of these species are kept 'off the grid' in Holland by keepers.
I will continue to try and help with the long term conservation through captive breeding of these beautiful frogs.

Regards
Graham
 
#26 · (Edited)
sorry to get so far off topic but,

in the case of the US, ive NEVER seen CITES papers for a frog, regardless of rarity, and its extremely uncommon to get any paperwork whatsoever (even a receipt of purchase) for all species whether the population is very stable or critically endangered. there have been many a heated debate over importation of species (despite sustainable collection having been suggested in some instances) because of the complete inability to legitimately track the lineage of any frog after initial legal import. the ONLY truly illegal frogs (criminally punishable) therefore are those which have never been legally imported at any time. of course there is the rare case of being caught in the act of transporting illegal animals or being found intentionally misinterpreting animals identity or origin. its not the best system, but its not the worst either, and while i do see the need to control smuggling when possible, i also believe that a 0 tolerance stance helps no one.

james
 
#29 · (Edited)
Noone is to judge whether a species is legal or illegal but the officials in anyones country. Dendrobatidae Nederland as a froggroup does not judge about the legal status of frogs. The legal status is always dependant on the keepers ability to prove the legality of any individual frog to the officials in his or her country.

Although Wesley's avatar is the logo of our froggroup, he is not a board member of Dendrobatidae Nederland, thus does not represent our view on this subject.

The thing Wesley might be trying to say is that Dutch officials do not recognize the validity of papers for histrionicus, lehmanni, sylvaticus and a couple of other species. In their opinion old papers are being used to legalise recently smuggled frogs. This has obviously been the case. So now it's up to the hobbyists themselves to believe one or another...
 
#34 ·
That is not true legally speaking. In US law, the prosecution would have to proof beyond a reasonable doubt that you had committed a crime. The fact that frogs did legally enter the country at some point in time is more than enough to provide that to any competent defense attorney.
 
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