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Although while looking through the paper, the table that compares carotenoid content wasn't super clear on the claim that drosophila contains significantly less carotenoids than either ants or mites. Maybe someone else could take a look at the paper?
The categories are quite broad in the table and they mix common names, orders, specific families etc ... not very well put together.

Anyway, according to their table both dipterans and ants have the same mean carotenoid content (120 mg/kg), but it does imply that mites (arachnids) have significantly more (280 mg/kg).

That said, Dugas et al. only cite that paper in regards to the claim that mites are more carotenoid rich than ants. No claim is made as to a comparison between drosophila and either ants or mites (unless I missed it).

Their reference to Olson raises one of my pet peeves ... improper citation. Dugas et al.should have gone back to the original sources listed in appendix A of Olson. The table in Olson is neither a result or conclusion, it is merely introductory material composed of data extracted from other manuscripts of Olson. This is just pure laziness on the part of the authors ...
 

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There is another study using red-eye tree frogs that has some good information in it as well.. Sorry not free access see A brighter future for frogs? The influence of carotenoids on the health, development and reproductive success of the red-eye tree frog - Ogilvy - 2012 - Animal Conservation - Wiley Online Library for the abstract.

Over the last couple of years I've increased the carotenoid (astaxanthin) content of the Calcium plus formula until it's about 50/50. I've seen better reproduction and an increase in red coloration of the pumilio. (And as a side note, that is with a once/week feeding of D. melanogaster and no other supplementation). I think I've seen all I can figure out using this method so will be switching up my trials in the near future.
I saw a huge amount of froglets produced out of my caucheros. I think I'm up to nine froglets in the last 4 months from one pair (there is at least one extra in their cage now as I suddenly have two calling males again).

Some comments

Ed
 
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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
FYI, Mixing one four ounce bag of SuperPig with a four pound bag of SuperFly would give you 6% inclusion level

A 3oz jar would be just under 5% and since we are phasing out the 4oz bags at the end of the year, that would probably be the way to go.

Allen
 

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FYI, Mixing one four ounce bag of SuperPig with a four pound bag of SuperFly would give you 6% inclusion level

A 3oz jar would be just under 5% and since we are phasing out the 4oz bags at the end of the year, that would probably be the way to go.

Allen
Thanks Allen....and Ed as well....

sent from my Galaxy S lll
 

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That said, Dugas et al. only cite that paper in regards to the claim that mites are more carotenoid rich than ants. No claim is made as to a comparison between drosophila and either ants or mites (unless I missed it).
There is at least one study on carotenoid retention and storage by fruit flies see Giovannucci, David R.; Stephenson, Robert S.; 1999; Identification and distribution of dietary precursors of the Drosophila visual pigment chromophore: analysis of carotenoids in wild type and ninaD mutants by HPLC; Vision Research 39(2): 219-229

In general if I remember correctly from that study (and discussed here http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/67766-repashy-superfly-26.html#post608267)

Some comments

Ed
 

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There is at least one study on carotenoid retention and storage by fruit flies see Giovannucci, David R.; Stephenson, Robert S.; 1999; Identification and distribution of dietary precursors of the Drosophila visual pigment chromophore: analysis of carotenoids in wild type and ninaD mutants by HPLC; Vision Research 39(2): 219-229

In general if I remember correctly from that study (and discussed here http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/67766-repashy-superfly-26.html#post608267)

Some comments

Ed
Thanks Ed. I'll have to read that one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
There is another study using red-eye tree frogs that has some good information in it as well.. Sorry not free access see A brighter future for frogs? The influence of carotenoids on the health, development and reproductive success of the red-eye tree frog - Ogilvy - 2012 - Animal Conservation - Wiley Online Library for the abstract.

Over the last couple of years I've increased the carotenoid (astaxanthin) content of the Calcium plus formula until it's about 50/50. I've seen better reproduction and an increase in red coloration of the pumilio. (And as a side note, that is with a once/week feeding of D. melanogaster and no other supplementation). I think I've seen all I can figure out using this method so will be switching up my trials in the near future.
I saw a huge amount of froglets produced out of my caucheros. I think I'm up to nine froglets in the last 4 months from one pair (there is at least one extra in their cage now as I suddenly have two calling males again).

Some comments

Ed
You can download the referenced article from my website at: http://store.repashy.com/media/Brighter Future for Frogs.pdf
 

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Thank you JPccusa for pointing out the answer for my first question.

I did not see the answer to my 2nd question. (I'm not entitled to an answer, but I sure would appreciate one so I can make a purchase and have the healthiest frogs possible) I'll ask it another way. If I have a pound of generic fly food, how many ounces of SuperPig should I include in that pound? Or if you could tell me how many ounces of SuperPig to add to a pound of fly media.

Thank you in advance Allen! (or anyone who is better at reading comprehension and can point out the answer to me.) :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
Thank you JPccusa for pointing out the answer for my first question.

I did not see the answer to my 2nd question. (I'm not entitled to an answer, but I sure would appreciate one so I can make a purchase and have the healthiest frogs possible) I'll ask it another way. If I have a pound of generic fly food, how many ounces of SuperPig should I include in that pound? Or if you could tell me how many ounces of SuperPig to add to a pound of fly media.

Thank you in advance Allen! (or anyone who is better at reading comprehension and can point out the answer to me.) :)
This is really impossible to answer because every fly media is different and I can really only speak for my own.

I would say to just use the same levels for any media as using 5% in a media with zero carotenoids will still have more overall carotenoids than the study media.
 

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For those who raise Pumilio & occasionally offer Bug Burger to the isopod populations within the vivarium directly... Why not mix superpig into bug burger, when it's offered to isopods within the enclosure? Sounds like it could be another more beneficial gutload, maybe... :) Any chance that would work, Allen?
 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
For those who raise Pumilio & occasionally offer Bug Burger to the isopod populations within the vivarium directly... Why not mix superpig into bug burger, when it's offered to isopods within the enclosure? Sounds like it could be another more beneficial gutload, maybe... :) Any chance that would work, Allen?
You could do that also.... of course we can't assume any similarities between Iso's and Drosophila as far as retention, assimilation, or conversion to an "x" factor....

It couldn't hurt though and i would recommend the same inclusion as for the superfly.

Allen
 

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That wasn't the purpose of the study and would take a new experiment to get the results. I'm not sure that would even be possible...

I'm just glad they did this study. It's not everyday we get this kind of info! It's groundbreaking really, don't you think?

Glass half empty kinda guy? :rolleyes:
Well.... that's the main problem with scientific papers, there's always more experiments to do and not enough time :p


Over the last couple of years I've increased the carotenoid (astaxanthin) content of the Calcium plus formula until it's about 50/50. I've seen better reproduction and an increase in red coloration of the pumilio. (And as a side note, that is with a once/week feeding of D. melanogaster and no other supplementation). I think I've seen all I can figure out using this method so will be switching up my trials in the near future.
I saw a huge amount of froglets produced out of my caucheros. I think I'm up to nine froglets in the last 4 months from one pair (there is at least one extra in their cage now as I suddenly have two calling males again).

Some comments

Ed
Wait, am I understanding that you are mixing equal ratios of Cal+ and carotenoid? Like 1 cup each?
 

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Wait, am I understanding that you are mixing equal ratios of Cal+ and carotenoid? Like 1 cup each?
Yes but not on that volume. I only mix as much as I need for approximately two weeks of feedings. So it's more like 1 table spoon of each. It was a trial for the last several years to see if I could find a deep end on the astaxanthin levels. I did not see anything that gave me any indication I had found one.

I'm now going to change what I've been doing and see what happens..

Some comments

Ed
 

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You could do that also.... of course we can't assume any similarities between Iso's and Drosophila as far as retention, assimilation, or conversion to an "x" factor....

It couldn't hurt though and i would recommend the same inclusion as for the superfly.

Allen
MeiKVR6 or Allen,

I realize that I am a little late on this conversation, but I am learning a lot and trying to catch up :). With regards to Bug Burger for springs, am I correct in assuming that you just sprinkle some under the leaf litter within the viv itself? Would this have any effect on the springs ability to "clean" the tank? I have just been feeding my spring culture once a week or so and then feeding them off in the viv assuming that they are eating decomposing matter within the viv. I appreciate any help.

Aaron
 

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hey,

sorry for resuming the topic,

i just recently puchased superPIG and i was wondering, should it be directly dusted on the feeders or integrated in the gutloading of fruitflies and collembola?

thanks
 
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