Dendroboard banner
1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,202 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Was told Cristobal, and asked when ordering. I called and ordered before they hit the price list. The shipment arrived Thursday and sold quickly on what they have labeled Cristobal (only 25 specimens). I was told it was a very small shipment of pums containing Mancreek, El Dorado, and Cauchero. I ordered 8, I called back to see if I could order a few more for a friend and was told the 25 were split between me and two others.

I don't remember El Dorados coming in bright red, I may be mistaken.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,363 Posts
Keep in mind that color is going to be highly variable in a population and even in individuals over their lifetime (and is dependent on diet). These look to be Cristobals to me (I really don't know why importers keep collecting those dull ones!).

Not to beat an old drum, but there really is no such thing as FR pums...
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,347 Posts
Yes there is! While not in Panama, I do know Ron Tremper was farming D. pumilio in Nicaragua in 2003-2005. I'm not sure if he still has in farm there however. He was never able to export them (that I know of) however, as Nicaragua banned their export several years earlier (strangely, Ron wrote the law that did this). This species has been farmed though...he was doing it in large screened enclosures filled with bromeliads and raw fruit to attract fruit flies.

Not to beat an old drum, but there really is no such thing as FR pums...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,363 Posts
Sorry, I meant in Panama. I would be skeptical too of other operations, though, if they were truly farms or if the tanks acted as housing for frogs until they were moved on. Without a very large facility, you can't really farm pumilio in any sort of significant numbers for export, at least not what has traditionally come out of these countries.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,347 Posts
I agree about Panama, however I am confident Ron's facility was breeding O. pumilio in large numbers. Truthfully, I don't see an issue to WC animals coming in at a few thousand a year as long as it's sustainable. Compared to the days when O. pumilio came in prior to the export bans, these numbers are very small. On top of that, significant headway has been made towards breeding. Previously, it was very rare and quite misunderstood.

Sorry, I meant in Panama. I would be skeptical too of other operations, though, if they were truly farms or if the tanks acted as housing for frogs until they were moved on. Without a very large facility, you can't really farm pumilio in any sort of significant numbers for export, at least not what has traditionally come out of these countries.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,329 Posts
Yes there is! While not in Panama, I do know Ron Tremper was farming D. pumilio in Nicaragua in 2003-2005. I'm not sure if he still has in farm there however. He was never able to export them (that I know of) however, as Nicaragua banned their export several years earlier (strangely, Ron wrote the law that did this). This species has been farmed though...he was doing it in large screened enclosures filled with bromeliads and raw fruit to attract fruit flies.
This actually supports the argument that there are no FR pumilio in the hobby.. which is what I was referring to and I believe Phil was as well.

There are alternate methods for "farming" pumilio as you can increase density and production by increasing tadpole deposition sites, but the problem is that there is no proof that this is occuring with the exported frogs or that the targeted populations can sustain those exports.

Ed
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,363 Posts
This actually supports the argument that there are no FR pumilio in the hobby.. which is what I was referring to and I believe Phil was as well.

There are alternate methods for "farming" pumilio as you can increase density and production by increasing tadpole deposition sites, but the problem is that there is no proof that this is occuring with the exported frogs or that the targeted populations can sustain those exports.

Ed
In my experience with looking around and asking around, that is not happening. My research centers around manipulating of rearing sites and when I presented the results in Bocas, it was largely received as a novel method.

My research suggests that it is highly possible that wild caught harvest is not happening in a sustainable fashion mostly because it is largely unregulated beyond export permits that say Oophaga pumilio. There is no specification of population, and some populations could be rather vulnerable. The best estimate I could find is that 15,000 pumilio were imported commercially from 2004-2008 (about 14,500 were reported as "captive bred" which really is just a ruse to get around quotas). So that's the numbers that are legally reported. Some populations, are rather small, such as Pastores (I estimated about 1351 frogs/ha, the highest density of any of the populations, which if that density stays constant through the island, there would only be only 30,000 frogs on the whole island).

There really is no regulation at the population level, which means that populations can easily be exploited and extirpated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
915 Posts
Thanks! I am keeping two pairs the other will be put up for sale once treatments are finished.
Hi first stunning frogs,please could you elaborate for me on your quarrantine,what containers what ventilation etc,and also what treatments,buddy i am a beginner,trying to get a grasp on all this,one last thing ...how long is your quaranntine period?
Thanks J
Stu
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,202 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top