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Discussion Starter #1
Dear all,

I'd like to inform everyone that our monograph on Ranitomeya just came out in Zootaxa.

The abstract can be read here: http://www.mapress.com/zootaxa/2011/f/z03083p120f.pdf

If anyone would like a reprint, please contact myself or Jason Brown (our email addresses can be found in the abstract).

Finally, we have posted an article summarizing the changes on dendrobates.org which is available here: Dendrobates.org - Summary of Changes

Regards,

Evan Twomey
 

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Interesting, now I have new taxonomy to memorize :p
Makes the whole "amazonica vs iquitos ventrimaculata" thing easier, but I am pretty surprised by the "lamasi and sirensis" grouping. Keep up the good work guys
 

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So FG Vents are actually variabilis? Wow, wouldn't expect that at all. Are Iquitos vents actually amazonicus or variables?

EDIT, just reread the changes - ignore my post.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
No, French Guiana vents would actually be amazonica (this relationship has been suspected for some time, it is just "official" now).

And the frogs from Iquitos are also amazonica (there are some populations of variabilis that come near Iquitos but I don't think these are in the hobby...maybe Mark could shed some light on this?).
 

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My world has been turned upside down!

So there's no lamasi now? And the original sirensis population stays the same?

And all ventrimaculata are now variabilis, except the reddish-orange populations around Iquitos, and the frogs from French Guiana, which are now amazonica?
 

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Does this mean that we can get some of the former sirensis in the hobby now? I'm a little curious also, what sirensis was found breeding with, was it green lamasi, orange lamasi, etc? Which of these naturally breed together and which are in isolated populations?
 

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Interesting advancements....Keep up the great work and research. Confused to say the least......We need a flow chart..LOL
 

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Discussion Starter #10
All you guys that keep lamasi can be happy, cause you just got an upgrade: all your frogs are now sirensis, one of the rarest species known!

The 'pure' sirensis were found breeding with red-striped lamasi. This is pretty close to Panguana, and there are several reddish-orange populations around there. There are some photos of this in the paper.
 

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This actually made me laugh out loud on dendrobates.org:
Many people seem to think taxonomists only make taxonomic changes so that they can keep their jobs. We can assure you that this is not the case.
Also, I think i read in the abstract that molecular data was used for the revised designations, so does this mean that the species were compared genetically?
 

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Fantastic job, and damn well written, esp by Zootaxa standards. Funny, just reread Grant last weekend and now this!
 

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interesting.

so will you have to publish the location where you found the "old" sirensis now?

it should also be noted to those reading this thread that as this paper illustrates, names are not set in stone and just as the name amazonica persisted, after there was vast speculation as to its validity, i suspect some of the names of the frogs that have been changed in this proposal for new classification, will remain the same (at least for some time)

james
 

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i suspect some of the names of the frogs that have been changed in this proposal for new classification, will remain the same (at least for some time)
Not for me. All of your lamasi are now sirensis.... I am a little disappointed that duellmani are now vents, though.... :/
 

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Im curious, how do we know that the two were not naturally hybridizing in the area where they were seen together? Was there also genetic data taken? Im not trying to say that your data is wrong, im just curious.
 

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Im curious, how do we know that the two were not naturally hybridizing in the area where they were seen together? Was there also genetic data taken? Im not trying to say that your data is wrong, im just curious.
The Paper shows that they are the same species genetically; most of the paper is based on both genetic and morphological data. the original R. sirensis is nested in the middle of the "R. lamasi" tree indicating they are the same species.

Its a great paper and it is definitely a great read!
 
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Discussion Starter #19
Another thing we noticed is that the amount of black coloration seemed to be variable in areas where these two "species" (really morphs) contacted each other. What is strange is that if you picture a red/orange "lamasi" without any black patterning (basically an amelanistic morph), you could picture something like a typical sirensis (complete with the belly patch, and the leg color is also the same). So maybe there is some sort of genetic mutation which naturally occurs in this population that causes some frogs to lose their black patterning?

We were just as surprised by this as everyone else.

Evan
 

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I took the visual species tree from p. 25 and compiled it into a list for those who may benefit from seeing it all together.

RANITOMEYA

variabilis group:
amazonica
variabilis

defleri group:
defleri
toraro

reticulata group:
ventrimaculata
reticulata
uakarii
summersi
fantastica
benedicta

vanzolinii group:
sirensis (formerly lamasi)
yavaricola
cyanovittata
imitator
vanzolini
flavovittata


ANDINOBATES

minutus group:
claudiae
minutus

fulguritus group:
fulguritus
altobueyensis

bombetes group:
abditus
daleswansoni
dorisswansoni
tolimensis
bombetes
virolinensis
opisthomelas


EXCIDOBATES
captivus
mysteriosus
 
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